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Mikhail Gorbachev has died

(www.reuters.com)
970 points homarp | 9 comments | 30 Aug 22 20:37 UTC | HN request time: 0.654s | source | bottom
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lapcat ◴[30 Aug 22 21:07 UTC] No.32655071[source]▶
The United States didn't do enough to help Russia transition to democracy in the 1990s. There was no "Marshall Plan" after the Cold War like there was after World War II. This was a huge mistake, and we see the consequences now, with Russia having turned back toward totalitarianism and imperialism. Sadly, it seems that Gorbachev's efforts were mostly for naught. But it was courageous at the time to open up the Soviet Union to glasnost and perestroika.

Of course Yeltsin was a big part of the problem too.

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thehappypm ◴[30 Aug 22 21:18 UTC] No.32655208[source]▶
I think the big difference is the oligarchs. The USSR had already been transitioned to a resource state, and there was no actual rebuilding that needed to happen. The Marshall plan was almost easy because you could tally up all the broken bridges and say “itll cost us $X to fix”. What’s the equivalent for post USSR? What ended up happening was oligarchs swooped in to take over from the central planners, and it’s not clear how the US could have helped steer it differently short of going to war with Russia’s upper class.
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1. JumpCrisscross ◴[30 Aug 22 21:28 UTC] No.32655355[source]▶
> the big difference is the oligarchs

The oligarchs were minted in the late 80s and 90s. They weren’t a preëxisting power structure. Putin came to power with their and the FSB’s help. (He was also popular for not being incompetent.)

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2. blockwriter ◴[30 Aug 22 21:39 UTC] No.32655492[source]▶
Wasn't the preexisting power structure the Soviet military? I thought that that Soviet generals stationed near large and valuable resources simply decided that these large and valuable resources had become their private property. Organized crimes and powerful politicians filled in the gaps.
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3. sam_lowry_ ◴[30 Aug 22 21:46 UTC] No.32655572[source]▶
They were minted in late 80s and 90s with the help and active involvement of the West.

There were so many stories...

Working at McKinsey in Moscow in 90s made you instantly into a multi-millionaire. US was sending planes full of dollars to Almaty. Chechen avisos were a CIA plot... and so on and so forth.

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4. thriftwy ◴[30 Aug 22 21:52 UTC] No.32655640[source]▶
Soviet military can't do nothing. It's not Latin America or Myanmar.

They will just sit there and wait for orders to come.

5. scrlk ◴[30 Aug 22 22:26 UTC] No.32655947[source]▶
I'm interested in reading these stories, are there any particular links you can suggest?
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6. gizmo ◴[30 Aug 22 23:02 UTC] No.32656290{3}[source]▶
You'll have an absolute blast reading Red Notice by Browder. It's about a hedge fund guy that ends up in Russia during the privatization period, quickly realizes the country is getting looted and wants a big slice for himself. It's a true-ish story, written like a spy novel, with many fascinating details about this unique period in history.
7. JumpCrisscross ◴[30 Aug 22 23:05 UTC] No.32656322[source]▶
> with the help and active involvement of the West

Yes, many ascendants had contact with the West. It’s how they played the game so well at the start of shock therapy. In most cases, they hired the right consultants who helped them do things like hoover up shares from people who didn’t know better to build a controlling stake. But to get to that point, they’d already accumulated assets.

The West enabled the rise of Russia’s oligarchs. But it didn’t mint them.

8. djkivi ◴[30 Aug 22 23:20 UTC] No.32656449{3}[source]▶
The book Red Notice by Bill Browder discusses this period. I wish the Netflix movie of the same name was based on it instead!
9. vintermann ◴[31 Aug 22 08:27 UTC] No.32659739[source]▶
No, none of the oligarchs were generals. They were usually entrepreneurs (Russia always had them, openly under Perestroika) who were well connected with one or more of

* The state apparatus

* The gray/black economy (or the criminal underworld)

* Foreign interests

The Soviet military was tightly politically controlled, they were well aware of the dangers of popular generals.