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The Big [Censored] Theory

(pudding.cool)
1444 points feross | 8 comments | 29 Aug 22 17:34 UTC | HN request time: 0.912s | source | bottom
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joe_the_user ◴[29 Aug 22 19:56 UTC] No.32642764[source]▶
It's worth noting that American censorship in, say, 1960, was at close to the same level.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_censorship_in_the_United_...

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1. pnemonic ◴[29 Aug 22 20:04 UTC] No.32642876[source]▶
Is it just as worth noting then that China is more than 60 years behind the US in terms of social progress?
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2. jl6 ◴[29 Aug 22 20:13 UTC] No.32642966[source]▶
I’d probably agree with you - but only just. 60 years ago was pre-Civil Rights Act.
3. planb ◴[29 Aug 22 20:14 UTC] No.32642977[source]▶
“Behind” implies that they’re following and moving in the same direction. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s the case.
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4. Bakary ◴[29 Aug 22 20:41 UTC] No.32643288[source]▶
Social progress is somewhat of a loaded term, but for instance abortion has been legal for longer and is still more widely available in China than in the US. The controversy surrounding abortion is in itself different, since instead of Christian concerns you have sex-selective abortion and population management that determine policy in this era.

Homosexuality actually became less tolerated in the 19th and 20th century through Western influence. Now the West has done an about face in the span of one or two generations and China is comparatively less tolerant.

All this to say that it's difficult to quantify since

- assigning a teleological direction to social mores is perilous at best

- comparing entire societies means you overlook specific cases that often aren't even evaluated along the same axis

- Societies ebb and flow at unpredictable rates and with meandering paths and influence each other in often bizarre ways

5. vkou ◴[29 Aug 22 20:51 UTC] No.32643394[source]▶
No, behind implies that they are currently in the opposite direction of the current direction of western cultural movement. If the direction of our movement changes, they will, without lifting a finger, become ahead of us.

Social progress is inherently subjective (because progress in one value system is actually a regression in a different value system), and the observer always grounds their claim of 'behind' or 'ahead' in their culture's viewpoint.

6. stavros ◴[29 Aug 22 20:54 UTC] No.32643428[source]▶
Or ahead, who knows?
7. pessimizer ◴[29 Aug 22 20:58 UTC] No.32643470[source]▶
The incarceration rate of the US in 1960 was about 225/100K, and in China it's currently around 120/100K, so China is doing a little better than we were 60 years ago.

Of course our incarceration rate now has nearly tripled to 640/100K, so thank God they're not following us.

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8. fortuna86 ◴[31 Aug 22 12:27 UTC] No.32661216{3}[source]▶
Are you including the camps in XJ in that metric ?