The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

why am going to pay $1100 for an i5/8gb/265ssd when I can pay $700 for a i5/12gb/1tbHDD. This whole thing reminds me of the PANDA project from early 2000s and you all know how well that project worked out.

Laptop are throw aways. At the end of their life you recycle them and get a new one. The single problem I see with all these type of total upgradable devices is that you are still locked into a single vendor. Unless other vendors get onboard and you have competition, you are at the mercy of the single vendor's pricing and existence. How good is an upgradeable laptop when the vendor goes out of business and you can't buy parts?

https://frame.work/products/laptop-12-gen-intel/configuratio...

https://www.costco.com/hp-17.3%22-laptop---11th-intel-core-i...

> Laptop are throw aways. At the end of their life you recycle them and get a new one. The single problem I see with all these type of total upgradable devices is that you are still locked into a single vendor. How good is an upgradeable laptop when the vendor goes out of business and you can't buy parts?

I agree with your skepticism. But, I don't agree that it has to be this way. Framework is giving another model a chance, and yeah, it may fail. But Frameworks are no /more/ disposable than any other laptop, so I guess I don't see a downside to at least giving it a shot if it's at an acceptable price and has a desirable feature set. You're right that the commodity hardware is cheaper, but I guess I can live with paying a bit more to try something else out and support an alternate model.

Well first off the laptop you linked is an 11th gen cpu vs the frame work which just upgraded to a 12 gen. The framework isn't an amazing value dollar for dollar, spec for spec. That is not why you buy one though...

Is all about the upgradability, the open source aspect, sustainability, etc. Good luck if you want to open your Lenovo laptop and want to get it warrentyed for anything.

Having used a laptop similar to that linked HP in past and now comparing spec sheets, I don’t really think it’s in the same class as the framework laptop at all.

Compared to the framework, the HP’s:

- CPU is a generation behind

- Screen has low PPI (less sharp), very low brightness, and is probably a TN panel, meaning colors will be more dull

- HDD which is a lot slower than an SSD anyway is 5400RPM, which is slow even for an HDD

- Battery is 14Wh smaller

- Webcam is 720p instead of 1080p

- Bluetooth and wifi is a whole major version behind

- Charging port is one of those old terrible barrel jacks that gets loose quickly

And the build quality is most assuredly not in the same universe. Laptops as cheap as this HP are built on razor thin margins, which means that manufacturers are cutting costs wherever possible. This gets you things like creaky flexy cases, loose wobbly hinges, chintzy keyboards, bad trackpads, and oddball bargain basement components with less than amazing performance.

In short it will be a lot less pleasant to use, even ignoring that huge gaps in the spec sheet. Models from other manufacturers that would be more comparable to the framework in specs and fit and finish are the M1 MacBook Air/Pro, Dell XPS 13, and Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon.

Other vendors are free to produce compatible parts. They publish physical dimensions and cad files on github.

Everything about this is as interoperable as possible, both physical and software.

Maybe no other vendor will produce a motherboard or keyboard, but it's not Framework's fault.

Second, The closest competing product to Framework is Lenovo not HP. (Despite the fact they look like a Mac's aluminum body, huge buttonless touchpad and black chicklet keys, with a Surface's screen aspect ratio.)

HP's customer is someone who would like a Surface or Mac but doesn't have that kind of cash, or just cares more about a distinctive look that isn't gamer.

Here's HP's customer: I got my mom a top of the line maxxed out HP because she will never care about upgrades or repairs or Linux or raw power, but she does care about the blingy rich bronze look, and I care enough to steer her away from Surface and Mac even though I don't care about the cost. That's HP's customer.

I WAS actually able to replace the battery in her previous Spectre (the sweet thin one with the funky hinges that looked like hoop earrings or wedding bands) to give it to my niece when I updated mom, but HP did not make that easy.

HP are premium-looking Chromebooks that run Windows.

Framework are user-serviceable open platform Lenovos.

"Why would I spend..." You clearly wouldn't, so don't. But I would. Why? goes like this:

I don't particularly care too much about AMD vs Intel, but a lot of people are asking for an AMD cpu motherboard.

Let's say Framework did not make a an AMD motherboard, but someome else did. Let's say that the only way to get a Framework was to either buy a whole Framework including an Intel mainboard I don't want, PLUS the 3rd party motherboard for $500 or whatever it is. I would rather do that, because I want that open platform. First, Framework would not make me buy the entire machine, they would let me buy everything but the main oard. But even if they didn't, that mainboard I didn't want is actually useable all by itself like a 900 horsepower raspberry pi. Or I could sell it, because it's useful to anyone else too. Or I could keep it as a backup in case I damage my prefferred board. That platform which makes all kinds of options possible, is valuable to me.

No one yet makes any such 3rd party mainboard, but the platform at least allows for it and makes it possible vs not-possible. I want that. That is valuable to me. I will pay a lot for that.