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181 points feraligators | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.47s | source

I've long considered leaving this country for a multitude of reasons.

I'd be curious to hear some first hand experiences of those who've made the move to Europe and what you think of the process and considerations one should make.

A few questions to start the conversation:

- Where do you live?

- What's the biggest sacrifice you had to make (i.e. pay, housing, friends, etc.)

- What have you gained?

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nivenkos ◴[] No.30073296[source]
I was planning to move the other way before Covid - from Sweden to California. It's much less likely now as I have a stable position and my partner lost her job in the US.

Mainly the US has many benefits:

- Much, much higher salaries - like 2-3x higher than Western Europe _before_ income tax!

- Much larger houses for the price. i.e. you can have a big house with room for hobbies or children rather than just a small flat.

- Lower prices on a lot of fixed-price goods - cars, electronics, fuel, electricity, natural gas, etc.

- Lower income and sales tax so you can save for a property and retirement. This is really tough in Europe, the sort of Tech FIRE culture doesn't exist due to that - wealth is primarily inherited.

The downsides are:

- It's a necessity to drive, but at least outside the big cities it's a lot easier than Europe overall (big, wide, straight roads and automatic cars).

- Healthcare is tied to your employer so it can be incredibly risky when moving as an immigrant since until you get a Green Card, you are tied to the one employer (good luck negotiating a raise!). Note that in most Tech companies, the health insurance gives you better coverage than public systems in Europe (e.g. covering dentistry and annual checkups).

- Less stability in employment - at-will employment, lower unemployment payments (except vs. the UK), no trade unions in Tech.

- Safety in some areas wrt. gun crime, etc. - you have to choose where you live and work very carefully.

- Backwards in some technology (online payments, card payments, digitisation of government services vs. the UK and Scandinavia for example).

A main decision point would be if you have kids. Europe is great to move to if you've already saved a lot in the US, can move to Europe and buy a house outright, get permanent residency and then have children and benefit from better paternal leave and even universal child benefit payments (Kindergeld/Barnbidrag, etc.)

Whereas if you are child-free, and don't already have enough savings to buy property, it's going to be harder to achieve that in Europe IMO.

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pizza234 ◴[] No.30074491[source]
> Much, much higher salaries - like 2-3x higher than Western Europe _before_ income tax!

Where does this number come from? Assuming SWE, a senior SWE in Europe will generally take around 80/120k € (non-FAANG). 2-3x means a range of 180/400k $, which is not common even in the USA.

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1. nivenkos ◴[] No.30074639[source]
> a senior SWE in Europe will generally take around 80/120k € (non-FAANG)

Nowhere near - I got 75k EUR at a FAANG (whilst the same position in the US paid ~$165k USD - the levels were public). I now get 86k EUR in one of the most expensive countries in Europe (with over 40% tax rate too).

But most Tech salaries are much lower, I started on the equivalent of $40k USD for example, and it's common for people to level out around $65-70k USD.

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2. burntoutfire ◴[] No.30077854[source]
Looks like you're underpaid, if you shop around 86k EUR is what you can get paid in Poland, doing remote work, and paying 12% income taxes...