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Ask HN: Who has moved from the U.S. to Europe?

181 points feraligators | 1 comments | 25 Jan 22 15:44 UTC | HN request time: 0.215s | source

I've long considered leaving this country for a multitude of reasons.

I'd be curious to hear some first hand experiences of those who've made the move to Europe and what you think of the process and considerations one should make.

A few questions to start the conversation:

- Where do you live?

- What's the biggest sacrifice you had to make (i.e. pay, housing, friends, etc.)

- What have you gained?

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boffinAudio ◴[25 Jan 22 15:54 UTC] No.30073204[source]▶
I've done it, and it was one of the best decisions of my life.

WHERE: I'm Australian, moved to LA when I was 18 and lived there for 15 years. Then, I moved from Los Angeles to Germany (Duesseldorf), and then to Vienna, Austria.

WHAT SACRIFICE: No more In 'n Out Burger, no more decent Mexican/TexMex food, no more LA food trucks. These are literally the only things I miss about the USA. Literally every other aspect of life has improved massively by leaving the USA - healthcare, food, social life. For the first 4 years I walked to work, ffs. Now I ride a bicycle in combination with the best public transportation options in the world (Austria, Vienna).

GAINED: I've completely lost the brain-dead nationalist mentality that had infected me in my earlier life, I've gained Immense amounts of respect for humanity, I've learned German, I've experienced professional software and hardware development away from Silicon Valley standard practices, and I get to see the USA from outside the decadent, rose-colored bubble from which it is usually experienced. I honestly wish I'd left sooner - every time I go back I'm reminded just how much of a shithole the USA really is ..

Plus, living and loving in Europe is just great. There is no greater joy than a trip through the Balkans for a week adventure, or maybe a jaunt to Spain or southern France. Just being able to travel an hour in any direction and being immersed in absolutely foreign culture is a joy like no other. Definitely a great way to ground oneself.

EDIT: The weather was pretty good in LA. But, still: Americans.

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teakettle42 ◴[25 Jan 22 16:25 UTC] No.30073734[source]▶
Vienna is one of the nicest and wealthiest cities in Europe.

LA is a car-centric sprawling cesspool. Even for the US, it’s uniquely terrible.

If you’d moved to some of the less desirable locations in Europe, you’d probably find them to be a shithole, too.

Your lack of perspective (“how much of a shithole the USA really is”) is something I’d only expect from someone half your age on their first backpacking tour of Europe.

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sbarre ◴[25 Jan 22 16:33 UTC] No.30073851[source]▶
Geez someone hit a nerve, eh?

I'm a Canadian and I've travelled most of Europe, and most of the US (among other parts of the world).

The simple fact that the US doesn't have universal healthcare, and refuses to do anything real about it, or other endemic self-inflicted issues like gun violence - problems the rest of the modern world solved long ago! - kinda puts you at the bottom of the list of modern/developed countries in my book.

OP used a rather inflammatory term for sure, but he's not wrong when comparing pros/cons of first-world countries to the US. Y'all have real problems that you could solve but _choose_ not to.

It's obviously not all bad, there are lots of things to love about the US, but I would never ever choose to live there for the reasons above and more.

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1. frankus ◴[25 Jan 22 17:11 UTC] No.30074480[source]▶
I'm USian by birth, my parents were both born and raised in Germany, and my partner is Canadian. I've spent most of my life in NW (lower-48) USA and far-western Canada.

As a median middle-class person, Canada is pretty clearly the winner. Significantly less economic precarity, lots of mostly (cough Canada Post) well-run public services, and a somewhat self-fulfilling prophecy that government can make people's lives better.

As a median HN reader, it's a little bit more of a mixed bag:

The pay for software development work in the US is probably about double in terms of PPP versus Canada.

The fact that the US is a much bigger market means that a lot of apps/consumer goods/services are available in the US months or years before they launch in Canada. For online orders, delivery is faster, prices are cheaper, and the selection is better in the US.

Lastly, and this is kind of specific to the Greater Vancouver/Victoria area, but you pretty much have to be part of the 1% to afford a nice house in any moderately interesting city. I think a lot of this has to do with having the mildest weather in Canada and the geographic constraints of the mountains and waterways (along with being fucked up in pretty much all the same ways as the US real-estate market). That said, in Canada the 1% isn't comically out of reach for a moderately prosperous software nerd.

My biggest gripe with the US is the overall sense of incuriosity. Say what you will about American Exceptionalism, if you answer every question of "why don't we <do thing> like <country that does it way better than us>?" with "because we're different", rather than asking if we could try to emulate the way that <country> does <thing>, it leads to a lot of unnecessary stagnation. If the US can at some point get over itself, it probably has a lot of opportunity for catch-up growth.