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A Dyson sphere around a black hole

(arxiv.org)
214 points SkyMarshal | 4 comments | 19 Aug 21 03:40 UTC | HN request time: 1.107s | source
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lend000 ◴[19 Aug 21 08:58 UTC] No.28231742[source]▶
A well done data-driven thought experiment, but I do have to ponder why the scientific community has settled on Dyson Spheres, as opposed to more exotic, "alien" ideas. I mean, do we really think a thirty-five million year old civilization is going to settle on an idea some simian came up with in a civilization ~150 years post-harnessing electricity, which amounts to "really big solar panels?"

I'd speculate that power sources used by such civilizations would be so exotic to us, we would need new physics to fully describe them.

Also consider that the electromagnetic force is on the order of 10^36 times stronger than gravity. The electromagnetic force is what keeps your butt from falling through your chair, and gives all materials their macroscopic and chemical properties. And it sort of sets a soft limit on the sizes of rigid structures, animals, etc. Note that there are on the order of 10^30 atoms in a blue whale or Sequoia tree, and ~10^33 in a cargo ship.

replies(1): >>28231808 #
1. renewiltord ◴[19 Aug 21 09:12 UTC] No.28231808[source]▶
No one has settled on anything. It’s just that one approach involves solving a tractable problem to reduce the search space and the other does fuck all.

I’ve lost my keys, and these guys are asking me to retrace my steps while you’re asking me to consider the machinations of hitherto sleeping whimsical gods. I’ll try your thing next, but first I’ll do the other guys.

replies(1): >>28237092 #
2. lend000 ◴[19 Aug 21 17:57 UTC] No.28237092[source]▶
Nice strawman. Either way, you need new physics (to build a structure that large), so why not have a little more creativity while you're in the process of blatant speculation?
replies(1): >>28237246 #
3. renewiltord ◴[19 Aug 21 18:11 UTC] No.28237246[source]▶
> why not have a little more creativity while you're in the process of blatant speculation?

Bayes’ Theorem and the fact that probabilities exist smoothly from zero to one on hypotheses.

For the same reason that you consider checking your kitchen table for keys before you contemplate their disappearance into the quantum froth.

Alternatively, “show me the code”. Let’s see what you’re talking about in specific instead of hiding in generalities.

replies(1): >>28237655 #
4. lend000 ◴[19 Aug 21 18:44 UTC] No.28237655{3}[source]▶
Here are some other ideas to consider, which would be more practical than Dyson Spheres imo, and don't require more deviations in currently known physics than the construction of a star-sized solar panel:

- a civilization which has discovered a means to efficiently transform atomic mass into energy with arbitrary elements not considered good candidates for fission or fusion.

- a civilization which has a means to extract work from zero point energy.

- a civilization which is power efficient enough to never need an entire star's worth of energy localized in a single solar system. Note that John Von Neumann's brain consumed about 20 Watts of power.

Obviously, there is no right answer, because we aren't there yet. But the point of the original comment is that the ratio of media about Dyson Spheres to other speculation is really unbalanced for how impractical/uncreative (in this day and age, not when they were conceived) of an idea they are. No need to get combative about it.