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131 points mg | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.586s | source
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rich_sasha ◴[] No.26597628[source]
If solar were free, but we still needed to pay for battery storage, how would it then compare in cost to fuel-based alternatives (fossil fuel, nuclear etc)?
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kleton ◴[] No.26597691[source]
Would need $20/KWh battery storage to be competitive with nuclear for baseload according to https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30300-9 At the moment, we're at about $800/KWh.
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jxidjhdhdhdhfhf ◴[] No.26597895[source]
Aren't car battery packs under $100/KWh? Is there some other factor which drives up the price for grid level storage?
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manfredo ◴[] No.26598247[source]
The factor that drives up price for grid level storage is scale. Only ~300 GWh worth of batteries is produced globally each year. The world uses 2.5 TWh of electricity each hour. If anyone tries to install battery storage at a significant scale, demand will vastly outstrip supply and drive prices up.
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tzs ◴[] No.26599059[source]
That's lithium batteries, isn't it? For storage to balance out fluctuations in renewable sources you shouldn't need to use lithium.

It's used in cars and consumer devices because it can store a lot of energy for its size and weight and you don't have to mollycoddle it to avoid memory effects.

Those are much less important concerns for this application. You'd build you battery facilities somewhere outside your cities, perhaps near where you build your solar farms, and you don't need the batteries to move. Batteries that take up more room and/or weigh more than lithium batteries for a given capacity should be fine.

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1. Manfredo_1 ◴[] No.26599745[source]
Right. Lithium batteries won't cut it. That leaves geographically-dependent hydroelectricity, which isn't so easy to build. And then proposed solutions that are still in the prototyping phase, and aren't commercially available.
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2. VBprogrammer ◴[] No.26601200[source]
I've really enjoyed reading your contribution to this discussion. To the extent I kind of wished there was a private message function.

Partially this is because we have similar views on a lot of the challenges facing a move to renewables. I think sometimes this comes across as being sceptical of the progress of renewables.

In my case, and I suspect in yours, that's not really the case. In fact I'm excited and interested in how we will solve these problems in a variety of different ways.

I think we are in agreement that lithium isn't going to be the answer to energy storage at grid scale. If for no other reason than being in direct competition with the electrification of transportation isn't ideal.

Personally I'm hopeful that Ambri's liquid metal battery will materialize.

What developments do you have your eye on?