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131 points mg | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.727s | source
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cbmuser ◴[] No.26597835[source]
It doesn't matter that solar itself is cheap, it still needs backup plants which are the reason Germany has the highest electricity prices - world-wide.

> https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices/

It's really strange that users on HN keep rehashing the myth that solar and wind energy will result in lower electricity prices for consumers - they won't, never.

Even if solar and wind energy was free, consumers would still have to pay the costs for running backup and/or storage plants which lets consumers prices soar.

The problem with solar and wind is that they simply can't produce electricity on-demand which means the kWh has an actual market value and can therefore be sold with a profit.

If a solar or wind park produces huge amounts of electricity when demand is low, the result are dumping or even negative prices.

Affordable and clean electricity in populous industrial countries like Germany or the US can be provided through nuclear energy only.

Proof:

> https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-emissions-by-sector?t...

> https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/ghg-emissions-by-sector?t...

Germany: 350 million tons p.a. CO2 in the energy sector France: 50 million tons p.a. CO2 in the energy sector

Germany: 38 cents per kWh France: 22 cents per kWh

Germany: 50% renewables in its electricity mix France: 70% nuclear in its electricity mix

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pfdietz ◴[] No.26598696[source]
Cost of a new nuclear powerplant: $10,000/kW

Cost of a simple cycle gas turbine powerplant: $400/kW (combined cycle, $1000/kW)

Go ahead and back up those renewables. It's still less expensive than installing nuclear, even if the turbines burn renewable-derived hydrogen.

replies(1): >>26598897 #
1. flavius29663 ◴[] No.26598897[source]
either way, the original point remains: solar and wind alone are not reliable enough.
replies(1): >>26599299 #
2. pfdietz ◴[] No.26599299[source]
Back up with turbines and an adequate hydrogen store and solar/wind are as reliable as you wish.

(EDIT: we are in violent agreement?)

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3. flavius29663 ◴[] No.26599416[source]
I think we have to agree on the meaning of some words first: "wind and solar alone" means wind and solar and nothing else.

You say backup with turbines....but of course, that's what I'm saying too. gas turbines are pretty cheap, small (relatively) and easy to fire. Gas storage is also a tried technology