←back to thread

677 points saeedjabbar | 5 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
hn_throwaway_99 ◴[] No.23544053[source]
I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO.

I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic racism - here's a great starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7mzj0cVL0Q. She also wrote the book "White Fragility".

Thinking about that, I'm just wondering how different it would be if one of those people who mistook the employee for the CEO instead turned to the CEO and said "I'm sorry, please excuse me for the instance of racism I just perpetrated against you, I promise it won't happen again." I realize how outlandish that may sound writing that out, but I'd propose that the fact that it does sound outlandish is the main problem. Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not. We can't address them if we're so embarrassed by their existence as to pretend they don't exist.

replies(22): >>23544136 #>>23544188 #>>23544280 #>>23544344 #>>23544345 #>>23544384 #>>23544423 #>>23544456 #>>23544643 #>>23544857 #>>23545414 #>>23545975 #>>23546597 #>>23546614 #>>23546741 #>>23546766 #>>23546819 #>>23547024 #>>23547096 #>>23547756 #>>23548377 #>>23549659 #
GaryNumanVevo ◴[] No.23544345[source]
I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foundational education about race.

Even within her book she claims that no amount of training will solve the issue, it seems that "White Fragility" is just another way for White people to tamp down the anxiety of race relations in the United States, rather than take any meaningful action towards changing it.

If your goal is to truly understand the Black american experience, it's best to start with actual Black authors. The House That Race Built by Wahneema Lubiano is a great set of essays about race and class structures.

replies(11): >>23544457 #>>23545054 #>>23545111 #>>23545141 #>>23546105 #>>23546205 #>>23546703 #>>23547183 #>>23547581 #>>23548755 #>>23549491 #
greenhatglack ◴[] No.23545054[source]
There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income.

I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

replies(7): >>23545758 #>>23545908 #>>23547036 #>>23547102 #>>23548030 #>>23548034 #>>23548151 #
GaryNumanVevo ◴[] No.23545758[source]
I'm skeptical of any American "Libertarian" especially when it comes to race. Sowell is a class-reductionist, which would make him a terrible pick for this topic.
replies(3): >>23547137 #>>23547774 #>>23549147 #
1. dgellow ◴[] No.23547137[source]
What is a class reductionist?
replies(1): >>23547381 #
2. zerocrates ◴[] No.23547381[source]
Class reductionism is basically saying that disparities that appear to be due to race, gender, orientation, etc. are really just economic differences, so if you can "fix" the economic bit the rest just solves itself.

The term is, somewhat ironically, often applied in a reductionist manner.

replies(1): >>23548179 #
3. missedthecue ◴[] No.23548179[source]
Uh... I think that is more palatable viewpoint than blaming them on genetics
replies(2): >>23548236 #>>23548658 #
4. MacsHeadroom ◴[] No.23548236{3}[source]
Who here blamed genetics?

Robin DiAngelo explicitly said "Biologically, race isn't real. But socially, race is a very real set of socialized worldviews shaped by segregation and superficial anatomical features. The white experience of both the majority and systemically powerful is one which normalizes a rejection of the existence of our own bias and enables us to ignore the existence of radically different lived experiences."

A bias towards normalizing whiteness and being blissfully ignorant of the lived experience of others is being blamed, not genetics.

5. watwut ◴[] No.23548658{3}[source]
I think that the alternative is supposed to be official policy of pushing some groups away and unconscious racism/sexism.