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Trump threatens to 'close' down social media platforms

(techcrunch.com)
707 points patd | 23 comments | 27 May 20 12:21 UTC | HN request time: 2.454s | source | bottom
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Ididntdothis ◴[27 May 20 13:54 UTC] No.23323232[source]▶
I feel like we are slowly reaching the state the movie “Idiocracy” describes. I feel very torn about this. On the one hand I don’t think we should leave it up to companies like Twitter to censor things. On the other hand I find it hard to believe that the president is constantly claiming things without any evidence backing up. It started with the claims of millions of illegal voters in 2016 and the commission they started disbanding quietly after finding nothing. And now publicly spreading rumors about killing somebody.

It’s insane how little respect the US has for the integrity of its political system. As long as it may hurt the “other” side everything is ok without regard to the damage they are constantly doing the health of the system.

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1. thatwasunusual ◴[27 May 20 13:57 UTC] No.23323289[source]▶
> On the one hand I don’t think we should leave it up to companies like Twitter to censor things.

Is it really _censorship_ to fact check tweets? I mean, Twitter hasn't _removed_ (i.e. censored) any tweets from Trump, just added an annotation.

replies(7): >>23323313 #>>23323341 #>>23323383 #>>23323388 #>>23323415 #>>23323428 #>>23323474 #
2. Ididntdothis ◴[27 May 20 14:02 UTC] No.23323383[source]▶
“Fact checking” is a nice exercise and somewhat helpful but a lot of people say half baked or stupid things all the time, including myself. Part of a healthy discourse is the ability to say questionable things and having a discussion.

Once you start fact checking where does it end? A lot of people have different views on different things and there is no clear right or wrong.

What I would like to see is that the US political system starts fact checking itself and stop spreading misinformation. This should be done out of self respect.

replies(2): >>23323447 #>>23323955 #
3. ◴[27 May 20 14:02 UTC] No.23323388[source]▶
4. nkkollaw ◴[27 May 20 14:04 UTC] No.23323415[source]▶
Yes, of course it is. Most people will all of a sudden ignore someone's message.

I have no idea why anyone would argue in favor of Twitter. When has it become required to be an expert in the field to be granted the privilege of leaving a comment on a forum? When has it become unacceptable to lie? People lie all the time. Advertisements lie to you, politicians lie to you, your mom lies to you.

It's really annoying that the truth police is going to go and check your tweets or comment—even if you ignore the fact that the line between facts and opinions isn't always easy to see. Even facts like Taiwan being its own country or part of China or the Armenian genocide can be denied, and people should be able to say that—and perhaps rightfully get shit for that, but still be able to say it.

We're going back to the Middle Ages, where if you say Earth isn't flat or God doesn't exist (replace with global warming isn't caused by humans, Covid-19 is man-made), you're executed.

Sad.

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5. DavidVoid ◴[27 May 20 14:05 UTC] No.23323428[source]▶
Use * text * (but without spaces) to italicize text btw.
6. _never_k ◴[27 May 20 14:06 UTC] No.23323447[source]▶
>Once you start fact checking where does it end?

With all the facts being checked?

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7. dspillett ◴[27 May 20 14:07 UTC] No.23323474[source]▶
> Is it really _censorship_ to fact check tweets?

Not at all. Free speech in both cases. He is free to say what he thinks, we (us as individuals, Twitter as a company, everyone) are free to say we think he is talking complete and utter balderdash if that is what we think.

A president trying to silence Twitter's statement about what he has said by intimidating them is an attempt at censorship though.

8. mplanchard ◴[27 May 20 14:10 UTC] No.23323512[source]▶
There’s a difference between you or I saying something incorrect (willfully or not) on the Internet and a world leader doing the same. Twitter already distinguishes famous people, world leaders, etc. in a variety of ways. It seems reasonable that this would be one of them, given that the potential reach and impact of anything they say far, far exceeds that of your average Tweeter.
replies(1): >>23323562 #
9. whatshisface ◴[27 May 20 14:12 UTC] No.23323560{3}[source]▶
I imagine he's suggesting that it will end with all the opinions being checked.
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10. nkkollaw ◴[27 May 20 14:13 UTC] No.23323562{3}[source]▶
Is there, though? Why should Twitter be in charge of deciding who's a world leader or famous enough to get checked?

Who is Twitter to fact-check world leaders?

When world leaders rarely tell the truth, how can anyone realistically think that such a system could even work, even if it made sense?

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11. dspillett ◴[27 May 20 14:13 UTC] No.23323568[source]▶
Yes, how sad that incorrect facts will no longer stand unquestioned...

If I'm wrong I like being corrected. It means I learn something. Of course if I think the correction is incorrect then things get a bit more complex and a longer discussion will ensue.

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12. nkkollaw ◴[27 May 20 14:16 UTC] No.23323614{3}[source]▶
Exactly.

Also, if they're false it should be easy to correct them.

Anyone who thinks about this for more than 20 seconds will see that this is about control, not protecting poor Twitter users who supposedly can't decide for themselves.

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13. dspillett ◴[27 May 20 14:22 UTC] No.23323739{4}[source]▶
Nothing wrong with that, particularly if those opinions are communicated in a way that makes them look like statements of fact.

Someone being able to say "I think your opinion is wrong" is no less a freedom of speech matter than someone being able to state an opinion in the first place. Freedom of speech does not, or at least it should not, give special privilege or protection to the first person who speaks.

14. nmfisher ◴[27 May 20 14:23 UTC] No.23323750[source]▶
Let me get this right - you're saying everyone should have the freedom to spread lies, half-truths or misleading statements, but that noone should have the freedom to call them out on it?

Twitter isn't requiring anything from anybody to comment on anything. They're just putting forward their own opinion. Much like Trump is putting forward his. The only difference is that people trust Twitter more than the current POTUS.

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15. Ididntdothis ◴[27 May 20 14:32 UTC] No.23323895{3}[source]▶
The line between fact and opinion can become very blurry. Whatever you do there will be a lot of issues that can’t be fact checked.
16. heurist ◴[27 May 20 14:32 UTC] No.23323910{3}[source]▶
This is a tough position for Twitter because they now have to fact check practically all of his tweets. Any tweet not checked will be seen either as tacit endorsement by Trump's political opponents or 'undeniable truth' by some portion of their users regardless of validity.
17. heurist ◴[27 May 20 14:36 UTC] No.23323955[source]▶
Public officials choose to live a live under intense scrutiny and should expect to be challenged on their positions and able to provide well-reasoned arguments for their opinions and actions. "Fact checking" is a necessary component of a functional democracy. As small and local news outlets die en masse from the social media takeover, someone needs to pick up the slack.
18. bostik ◴[27 May 20 14:49 UTC] No.23324176{4}[source]▶
Well, here's the funny bit: Twitter doesn't need to decide. If someone in a major power, such as a G20 member country, is in a government position, they are a world leader. And because things are always contested, that same category can be extended to high-ranking members of opposition.

I'm going to take you at your word and accept that world leaders rarely tell the truth: so they should ALL get the same treatment then. But instead of stamping their output with just "fact-check this", why not unilaterally label all of it with: "may contain lies, omissions and half-truths"?

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19. thatwasunusual ◴[27 May 20 14:51 UTC] No.23324212[source]▶
> Yes, of course it is. Most people will all of a sudden ignore someone's message.

Because Twitter adds an annotion to a statement? An annotation that leads to facts/more information?

Why?

> When has it become unacceptable to lie?

If a world leader does that, it needs to be addressed. Would you accept all the information that comes out of other countries, for example North Korea?

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20. nkkollaw ◴[27 May 20 19:53 UTC] No.23329039{3}[source]▶
> Because Twitter adds an annotion to a statement? An annotation that leads to facts/more information?

Why should Twitter do that. They're a tech company and are in no position to add to anyone's statements—specially a world leader's.

> If a world leader does that, it needs to be addressed. Would you accept all the information that comes out of other countries, for example North Korea?

It already gets address at the next elections. Even if it doesn't, are you saying that Twitter is the right institution to address lying from world leaders?

Does the leader of North Korea post on Twitter? Why are you comparing the leader of the freest country with the most oppressive?

So many questions...

21. nkkollaw ◴[27 May 20 19:58 UTC] No.23329108{3}[source]▶
> Let me get this right - you're saying everyone should have the freedom to spread lies, half-truths or misleading statements, but that noone should have the freedom to call them out on it?

Twitter should decide what business they're in. If they're a platform for people to discuss ideas, they should stay out of expressing their opinion, absolutely. What's next, is Microsoft going to fact-check what you're saying while you talk on Skype and add a message over your voice?

> The only difference is that people trust Twitter more than the current POTUS.

That's so cool! Perhaps you've found who can beat Trump in 2020—Twitter. I thought there was no hope, but maybe...

22. nicc ◴[27 May 20 21:53 UTC] No.23330550{5}[source]▶
> why not unilaterally label all of it with: "may contain lies, omissions and half-truths"?

Even if Twitter's motive was to help its users, that's just common sense. Does Twitter have such a low opinion of its users that it needs to treat them like 5-year-olds?

23. dspillett ◴[28 May 20 11:54 UTC] No.23336219{4}[source]▶
> it should be easy to correct them

Unfortunately many will read and forward the original post, and be ignorant (sometimes deliberately so) of any corrections.

Looking at it the other way: if responding with corrections is so powerful why not just respond to the post with a "potential misinformation" warning with a correction, perhaps citing sources that show the information to be correct? In fact citing sources in the first place could remove the problem entirely if the information is verifiably correct that way.

> this is about control

Correct: controlling the spread of misinformation.

> not protecting poor Twitter users who supposedly can't decide for themselves

No, it is trying to protect twitter users who won't think for themselves.