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MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

(sigpipe.macromates.com)
2031 points jrk | 14 comments | 22 May 20 15:39 UTC | HN request time: 1.238s | source | bottom
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kar1181 ◴[22 May 20 16:03 UTC] No.23273511[source]▶
I completely understand why things are going the way they are as our computing environment has become ever more hostile. But I am very nostalgic for the time where I would power up a Vic-20 and within seconds be able to get to work.

Teaching my daughter to program on a modern computer, we spend more time bootstrapping and in process, than we do in actual development.

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1. massysett ◴[22 May 20 16:12 UTC] No.23273634[source]▶
If that’s what you really want, grab a used ThinkPad and put Arch Linux on it. It will boot in a few seconds and is much more powerful than a Vic-20.
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2. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[22 May 20 16:22 UTC] No.23273745[source]▶
Still doesn't give you a programming environment, unless you want to do bash.
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3. armatav ◴[22 May 20 16:34 UTC] No.23273916[source]▶
How does that even make sense? It’s an OS, go grab a Desktop Environment and download nvim, VSCode or whatever.
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4. goatinaboat ◴[22 May 20 16:43 UTC] No.23274025{3}[source]▶
How does that even make sense?

Because that was the experience on those old machines. Switch it on, straight to BASIC prompt in a second or so. If you want to program it’s frictionless. And you can’t break it because BASIC is in ROM.

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5. gorrillaribs ◴[22 May 20 16:44 UTC] No.23274047[source]▶
Doesn't arch come with python & gcc out of the box?
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6. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[22 May 20 16:56 UTC] No.23274216{3}[source]▶
The original line that I was responding to was

> Teaching my daughter to program on a modern computer, we spend more time bootstrapping and in process, than we do in actual development.

Arch Linux does not help with this, unless you make it boot into a VIC-20 emulator or something. Arch can help with boot speed, but once you're booted you're back in a full modern OS. So fine, install VSCode and Python... okay, now you get to figure out libraries. Manage terminals. Arrange a filesystem. This is not getting you closer to the VIC-20 or C64's "boot into BASIC".

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7. Throwaeay2928 ◴[22 May 20 16:57 UTC] No.23274224[source]▶
Yes it does. When you pacstrap you include base devel. From that moment onwards your you will have a full programming environment all ready to rock and roll on your installation.
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8. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[22 May 20 16:58 UTC] No.23274245{3}[source]▶
No, although `pacman -Syu python base-devel` isn't exactly a burden. But then what? If you're trying to get back to a simple "turn on computer, land in simple programming environment", how does it help that you have python and gcc available? You still have to manage libraries, learn to use a compiler, and all the other joys of modern development. The only thing Arch Linux gained you was a bit simpler OS and maybe better boot times.
9. harpratap ◴[22 May 20 16:59 UTC] No.23274269{4}[source]▶
Flexibility vs complexity is a slippery slope.
10. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[22 May 20 17:26 UTC] No.23274616{3}[source]▶
Yes, and you have a full operating system and all the joys of modern development. You absolutely do not have anything like a VIC-20 that you can power on end have a basic programming environment 5 seconds later. At best, you turn it on and 5 seconds later have a python shell, where you can do a certain amount of development before you get to experience the joys of managing libraries and dependencies. Thus bringing us back to what I perceived as the primary complaint that there's way too much setup and baggage required just to get to the actual programming part.
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11. cosmojg ◴[22 May 20 18:07 UTC] No.23275093{4}[source]▶
This is very possible on Arch Linux, moreso than other distributions. After installing Arch, just run the following two commands:

  sudo pacman -S xonsh

  chsh --shell /usr/bin/xonsh
Bam! You're booting straight into a full Python environment when you turn on your computer. This is similarly achievable with other languages as well, including BASIC.
12. smcameron ◴[22 May 20 18:13 UTC] No.23275153{4}[source]▶
How about Processing. https://processing.org/
13. californical ◴[22 May 20 19:10 UTC] No.23275763{4}[source]▶
You can use python without needing to manage any packages -- you'll have to write most things from scratch, but isn't that the hardware BASIC non-internet experience regardless?
14. cycomanic ◴[23 May 20 05:32 UTC] No.23280193{4}[source]▶
If you want that today get a BBC microbit, switch on and you're directly in a python environment