Most active commenters

    ←back to thread

    Uber loses licence to operate in London, will still operate while appealing

    (www.bbc.com)
    256 points reubensutton | 21 comments | 25 Nov 19 10:19 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
    1. caithrin ◴[25 Nov 19 10:50 UTC] No.21626966[source]▶
    "Only in the last few months it has been established that 14,000 Uber journeys have involved fraudulent drivers uploading their photos to other driver accounts - with passengers' safety potentially put at risk getting into cars with unlicensed and suspended drivers."

    This seems, from a technical perspective, an easy problem to solve with the resources of a public company.

    Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that?

    replies(7): >>21626979 #>>21627015 #>>21627048 #>>21627152 #>>21627153 #>>21627155 #>>21627446 #
    2. xwolfi ◴[25 Nov 19 10:53 UTC] No.21626979[source]▶
    I wonder what we could do, let's think...maybe...a taxi medalion with a public exam ? :D

    They tried to solve the problem from the wrong angle, and it turns out that the high cost of taxis, while suboptimal for sure, might not be entirely for no reason.

    replies(2): >>21626986 #>>21627631 #
    3. ReptileMan ◴[25 Nov 19 10:55 UTC] No.21626986[source]▶
    Only if the exam is cheap (not easy) and number of medallions is unlimited. (I got your joke, don't worry)
    replies(1): >>21627021 #
    4. onion2k ◴[25 Nov 19 11:02 UTC] No.21627015[source]▶
    This seems, from a technical perspective, an easy problem to solve with the resources of a public company.

    Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that?

    I don't think the motivation on the part of the drivers who do this is very important. They're intentionally deceiving Uber customers, and in some cases endangering them. That just has to stop, even if the driver is desperate. The point here is that it's Uber's responsibility to stop it happening, and Uber has apparently chosen not to (like you, it's not that hard). That will be very hard to justify, especially as Uber were running TV ads about how they do background checks on all their drivers here in the UK recently.

    replies(2): >>21627244 #>>21627432 #
    5. bengillies ◴[25 Nov 19 11:03 UTC] No.21627021{3}[source]▶
    The prices are listed on this page[1]. Looks pretty expensive to me.

    [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...

    replies(3): >>21627054 #>>21627068 #>>21627120 #
    6. JazCE ◴[25 Nov 19 11:09 UTC] No.21627048[source]▶
    Surely a decent solution would be for the uber driver having to use their fingerprint to initialise the app before every journey (as long as they're not using a galaxy s10)
    7. sacheendra ◴[25 Nov 19 11:10 UTC] No.21627054{4}[source]▶
    < 1000 pounds for what is basically license for a livelihood seems cheap.
    8. Symbiote ◴[25 Nov 19 11:13 UTC] No.21627068{4}[source]▶
    That is for the "black cab" taxis, the ones you can hail by waving on the street.

    For a private hire vehicle (the kind you telephone or use an app to book), the price is under £700 (under £500 if the driver speaks English).

    That doesn't seem unreasonable. The GP comment was referring to the American system where the license are traded at very high costs (tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars).

    https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...

    9. michaelt ◴[25 Nov 19 11:23 UTC] No.21627120{4}[source]▶
    Those are the prices for becoming a black cab driver (allowed to respond to street hails and use taxi ranks) - to drive for Uber only requires a "private hire driver" license.

    The private hire license avoids the need for "the knowledge" and to have the traditional London black cab. There are still fees involved, of course - but becoming an Uber driver is much less demanding than becoming a black cab driver.

    10. PJDK ◴[25 Nov 19 11:28 UTC] No.21627152[source]▶
    How do you stop one person signing up, doing the whole verification process correctly and then someone else using the app/driving the car? The only safeguard that springs to mind is providing a photo of the driver to the user, but that's already implemented.

    You could also do spot checks (no idea if they do or not), but that's not going to eliminate the problem just reduce it.

    replies(1): >>21627246 #
    11. ptah ◴[25 Nov 19 11:28 UTC] No.21627153[source]▶
    if you can't design for that, then your business is failing a fundamental requirement
    12. pjc50 ◴[25 Nov 19 11:29 UTC] No.21627155[source]▶
    > Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that?

    This is the Internet. If you don't design for people cheating you, they will wreck your system as soon as it becomes popular enough to be visible.

    replies(1): >>21627998 #
    13. lotsofpulp ◴[25 Nov 19 11:46 UTC] No.21627244[source]▶
    Other than constant facial recognition via camera pointed at the driver, how does anyone (not just Uber), guarantee that an approved driver doesn’t get out of the car and a non approved driver get in and start driving?

    Perhaps a selfie with the driver taken by the passengers during the drive would also suffice.

    In my opinion, Uber has done enough. They provide the passenger with the drivers name and photo. It’s up to the passenger to verify, but Uber should make violations easy to report.

    replies(2): >>21627269 #>>21627293 #
    14. us0r ◴[25 Nov 19 11:47 UTC] No.21627246[source]▶
    They have had this since 2016[0]. The problem is you have uber logic behind it. The only time it asks me to verify is when I'm on the highway and turn the app off and back on. I guess they think I'm tossing the phone to the car next to me while going 65?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...

    15. JazCE ◴[25 Nov 19 11:51 UTC] No.21627269{3}[source]▶
    using the fingerprint reader on a phone to accept any job?
    replies(1): >>21627711 #
    16. us0r ◴[25 Nov 19 11:55 UTC] No.21627293{3}[source]▶
    >It’s up to the passenger to verify, but Uber should make violations easy to report.

    They are. Click a trip, scroll down, click "my driver was unprofessional", click "my driver didnt match the profile in my app".

    The problem is most people dont report stuff to uber. I hear stories all the time from people and everytime I ask if they reported the driver they say no.

    17. slfnflctd ◴[25 Nov 19 12:18 UTC] No.21627432[source]▶
    I'm an Uber driver in the U.S. midwest (so I'm not sure if they're operating the same way in London), but every so often they make me take a live selfie within their app or I cannot accept new rides.

    It's a pain in the ass to have to pull over and do this sometimes, but it does seem like they're trying to do the right thing with it. I will say that at first it made me pretty angry, but when I realized the implication - that someone has probably already tried to fraudulently hand control to a different driver - it gave me chills and I realized they may not have many other options.

    18. lysp ◴[25 Nov 19 12:21 UTC] No.21627446[source]▶
    That happens with taxis too in Australia.

    Unauthorised drivers who don't match their picture ID driving.

    19. imtringued ◴[25 Nov 19 12:46 UTC] No.21627631[source]▶
    I think a better solution to a lot of problems would be to hand out licenses quickly and revoke them quickly. The value of posessing a license can often be questionable but the ability to stop rule breakers is incredibly useful.
    20. darkwater ◴[25 Nov 19 12:58 UTC] No.21627711{4}[source]▶
    Fingerprint on a phone (either iOS or Android) only authenticates the local phone user, it doesn't really expose any mean of unique identification to the app. So, basically even if you enforce fingerprinting to use the app, it would just authenticate/match whatever fingerprint was registered in the underlying OS.
    21. Jommi ◴[25 Nov 19 13:40 UTC] No.21627998[source]▶
    Which is the exact problem. Ubers smaller competitors have no incentive for heavy regulatory features because they can get away with it. That in turn pushes Uber to not implement them either, until the very last moment.