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    China

    (drewdevault.com)
    847 points kick | 20 comments | 20 Nov 19 15:44 UTC | HN request time: 0.696s | source | bottom
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    ilamont ◴[20 Nov 19 16:36 UTC] No.21585386[source]▶
    Xi's in a trap. The nationalist fervor that the CCP has whipped up for decades, coupled with the demonization of the HK protestors by Chinese media and Xi's 'no compromise' stance, makes it impossible for him to lighten up -- and the protests to de-escalate -- without him seeming weak. The HK protestors/population at this point are so angry and the radical wing so large, that they won't willingly de-escalate. Even if Lam leaves the demonstrations will continue. This sets up the stage for atrocities and more international condemnation.

    Already on the international front, China is in trouble. The pro-China KMT party in Taiwan may suffer greatly in the next election because of what's going on in HK now (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3037040/tai...), making China's aggressive demands for forced unification even more unlikely in the medium term. This week, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a HK rights bill (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-usa/us-...) that, if it becomes law, will put China through an annual review, which will further erode the Sino-U.S. relationship for years to come. There have been calls for a boycott of the 2022 Olympics in Beijing which seems fringey now, but won't be if China sends in the troops.

    There's also the internal question. Ordinary people in China are getting censored news, but some of the raw information about what's going on is getting through via social media. What does this mean for sentiment in Cantonese speaking areas of southern China, or for areas of China where provincial officials are resented for unjust or unfair treatment of citizens?

    replies(5): >>21585583 #>>21585587 #>>21586279 #>>21586559 #>>21589796 #
    spacehunt ◴[20 Nov 19 16:51 UTC] No.21585587[source]▶
    Social media in China is also heavily censored and manipulated. There are quite a few in mainland China who understands what's going on here in Hong Kong, but most buy into the state propaganda and wants us exterminated for being "separatists" and "traitors of the Chinese race."
    replies(2): >>21586005 #>>21590077 #
    1. baby ◴[20 Nov 19 17:23 UTC] No.21586005[source]▶
    There’s a lot of mainland people in the US who think the western medias are all biased and that they are helping HK to separate from China.
    replies(4): >>21586519 #>>21587534 #>>21588043 #>>21588061 #
    2. simlevesque ◴[20 Nov 19 18:05 UTC] No.21586519[source]▶
    > There’s a lot of mainland people in the US who think the western medias are all biased

    Isn't it ? I mean, I don't respect China much but this is not a false statement.

    replies(2): >>21587184 #>>21587387 #
    3. nailer ◴[20 Nov 19 18:59 UTC] No.21587184[source]▶
    Personally I'm biased in favour of rights. If HK ruled over China I'd be in favour of Chinese independence.

    I want Beijing to have universal suffrage just as much as I want the Cantonese to.

    replies(1): >>21587444 #
    4. perennate ◴[20 Nov 19 19:18 UTC] No.21587387[source]▶
    Western media is diverse because they are not all controlled by the same government. For example, the China Daily US Edition is based in the NYC and therefore can be considered "Western media", but being owned by the CCP it obviously publishes pro-PRC propaganda.

    Obviously if you define "Western media" as newspapers providing a certain viewpoint then by definition your argument would be correct. But that isn't an interesting argument.

    Moreover, using the Internet people in the US can read diverse points of view, including e.g. those of pro-China websites. This is not possible in China, except for a small minority who have access to VPN and similar technology.

    replies(1): >>21589070 #
    5. perennate ◴[20 Nov 19 19:24 UTC] No.21587444{3}[source]▶
    Most protesters don't want HK independence, they simply want universal suffrage which was guaranteed by the CCP in the 1997 joint declaration. But the CCP has failed their promise and almost half of the seats in the HK legislature are chosen by "functional constituencies" that do not represent the people. Of course the CCP has labeled these people as "separatists" to attract domestic hatred towards the protesters, and spreads propaganda in China that falsely represents their demands.

    At least SCMP still gives a truthful view: https://yp.scmp.com/hongkongprotests5demands

    replies(1): >>21676229 #
    6. brobinson ◴[20 Nov 19 19:32 UTC] No.21587534[source]▶
    What I've heard from PRC nationals in the US is that the CIA is behind the "riots". I'm assuming this is the narrative being pushed by the state-run media in the PRC.
    replies(2): >>21587598 #>>21591061 #
    7. spacehunt ◴[20 Nov 19 19:37 UTC] No.21587598[source]▶
    Definitely, pretty much from day one the PRC has been accusing the CIA and MI6 for inciting the "riots" designed to hurt the feelings of Chinese people.
    replies(2): >>21588804 #>>21640184 #
    8. surfcao ◴[20 Nov 19 20:18 UTC] No.21588043[source]▶
    I received news from mainland China, Taiwan and US media. Most of the US news (even NYT) are indeed often biased toward China and of course same for Chinese media. The biases contribute greatly to the increasing animosity between the two worlds.
    9. cayblood ◴[20 Nov 19 20:20 UTC] No.21588061[source]▶
    Several highly-educated Mainland China associates and colleagues have shared such thoughts with me and expressed general disdain for the HK protestors.
    replies(2): >>21589194 #>>21590088 #
    10. DarthGhandi ◴[20 Nov 19 21:34 UTC] No.21588804{3}[source]▶
    For reference here's the known efforts of the CIA in stirring the pot around the world. They are prolific by any comparison.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

    replies(1): >>21592394 #
    11. fao_ ◴[20 Nov 19 22:03 UTC] No.21589070{3}[source]▶
    > Western media is diverse because they are not all controlled by the same government.

    The majority of American News can be traced back to 6 billionaires

    http://www.tiragraffi.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/thebig6....

    replies(1): >>21590131 #
    12. hkmaxpro ◴[20 Nov 19 22:17 UTC] No.21589194[source]▶
    Well educated ≠ well informed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsWa9fieWSU

    This interview was in Melbourne, Australia. Many of the interviewees were mainland students in Australia.

    Not saying your associates and colleagues must be like one of them. Just offering one possible explanation.

    You can also test their knowledge, by asking them about the Five Demands of Hong Kong protestors, and also Hong Kong legislative and government structures. Some of the answers can be found in the original article.

    13. mensetmanusman ◴[21 Nov 19 00:14 UTC] No.21590088[source]▶
    I met some while I was studying at a top 5 university in the U.S. One had come out of the fog after studying a decade in Singapore. He could look back clearly at the brainwashing and described how it is done, but it takes many years on the outside for even very intelligent people to realize what has been done.

    Props to China though for having a pretty effective system.

    14. JumpCrisscross ◴[21 Nov 19 00:20 UTC] No.21590131{4}[source]▶
    > The majority of American News can be traced back to 6 billionaires

    6 is more than one. A majority is not a totality. And not all Western media is American.

    replies(1): >>21597740 #
    15. pnako ◴[21 Nov 19 02:57 UTC] No.21591061[source]▶
    The CIA would never do such a thing!
    16. teknologist ◴[21 Nov 19 08:41 UTC] No.21592394{4}[source]▶
    Who cares that the CIA might be behind this though? This is something that has to happen or your children are going to have pretty awful lives.
    17. jammygit ◴[21 Nov 19 18:42 UTC] No.21597740{5}[source]▶
    In 20 years it will probably be 3
    replies(1): >>21610390 #
    18. fao_ ◴[22 Nov 19 21:40 UTC] No.21610390{6}[source]▶
    Well, in Britain the majority of newspapers are owned or were bought by Murdoch, total media control seems to be part of his ultimate goal.
    19. baby ◴[26 Nov 19 17:07 UTC] No.21640184{3}[source]▶
    The same way Russians stirred our elections right?
    20. dailiangren ◴[01 Dec 19 16:38 UTC] No.21676229{4}[source]▶
    I am not sure you are telling the full story. It seems to me different sides have different interpretations w.r.t the 'universal suffrage' as in the joint declaration.