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1456 points pulisse | 9 comments | | HN request time: 1.75s | source | bottom
1. mey ◴[] No.21182862[source]
It's easy to forget the freedom I enjoy and expect in the United States. Again brings to light the question, how much do you actually own your device?

Since I assume there is no recourse for these users on a censorship level, is there such a thing as a class action lawsuit for removing a feature in Hong Kong?

replies(2): >>21182882 #>>21182951 #
2. milankragujevic ◴[] No.21182882[source]
Even if there was (I don't know, am not a HK lawyer), you would probably have a few problems if you complained about THAT exact feature being removed. Of course, this is just speculation on my part.
replies(1): >>21183017 #
3. lonelappde ◴[] No.21182951[source]
This is the freedom we give up when we choose proprietary systems. China has its problems with authoritarian government, which is enforced at the barrel of a gun. But we (the worldwide society) gave up our communications freedom to Apple and others willingly, for convenience.
replies(1): >>21184502 #
4. freehunter ◴[] No.21184502[source]
>But we gave up our communications freedom

Nonsense. The existence of proprietary platforms in no way reduces the possibility of free and open platforms. Using iMessage or Facebook Messenger or any other closed communication platform is a choice you can opt out of right now.

Sometimes I wonder if this all-too-common "the open Internet is dead" defeatism isn't some kind of false flag to make people think the open Internet is actually dead so they don't try to leave their walled garden. That is absolutely not the case and people need to stop saying it.

5. FabHK ◴[] No.21186039{3}[source]
People might be complaining about your use of unexpanded acronyms (CCP, PRC), or infusing a huge political stance onto a narrow legalistic question.
6. dang ◴[] No.21189146{3}[source]
That last bit breaks the HN guidelines badly. Would you please re-read them and follow them?

Such cheap accusations of brigading get made all the time from both sides and have proven to be completely unreliable.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

replies(1): >>21203723 #
7. nailer ◴[] No.21203723{4}[source]
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email us and we'll look at the data.

While accusations of brigading are common, I don't think the accusation is cheap in this case, you and I are both aware that the brigading happens on China related articles - we've spoke about it directly with each other via email. I would assume per the above you're looking at the data.

The last part is a bit of a deliberate trap - I've stated a fact, that the CCP agreed to provide HK with 'a high degree of autonomy'. If the anti-democracy suspects should downmod it, because it promotes allowing HK to do what the CCP agreed, they would be accusing their masters of lying. I quite deliberately did not make any allegation that the CCP would lie.

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8. dang ◴[] No.21206239{5}[source]
You're finessing this, but it's not a fine point. The guideline is clear. Please stop breaking it.

> you and I are both aware that the brigading happens on China related articles - we've spoke about it directly with each other via email

That's not accurate at all, and I have no idea what I said in email that would have made you think this. I've been looking at this data for years and have basically never seen anything remotely like what you're talking about. What you posted was a perfect example of the cheap accusations that the guidelines ask you to refrain from. You broke other guidelines there too, with going on about downvotes and flamey rhetoric ("Enjoy being disciplined by your masters"—please keep that kind of thing off HN).

If you want more explanation, I spent the whole day and half the night posting about this yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21200971

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21201077

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21199884

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195089

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195898

Previous comments on this at:

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

replies(1): >>21232723 #
9. nailer ◴[] No.21232723{6}[source]
I didn't complain about downvotes but welcomed them (as a point about hypocrisy). You and I have personally discussed strange moderation around articles involving China, you can find them in your inbox. Nevertheless I'll refrain from discussing them here, not because I agree with you (I don't) but because you have power here and I don't like having these discussions.