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Protester shot in chest by live police round during Hong Kong protests

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628 points nodea2345 | 13 comments | 01 Oct 19 11:19 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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loquor ◴[01 Oct 19 16:03 UTC] No.21126953[source]▶
This might sound alarmist, but do you think China is the biggest upcoming global problem after climate change? For two reasons:

1. China has a totalitarian ruling system. They intend to realize George Orwell's 1984.

2. Present-day China essentially has no ethics. Take the US in comparison. No matter how perverse the people in power become and even if they do messed up things, the US has some founding morals and principles they do not forget. China, in comparison, systematically rooted out these values since the Great Leap Forward. The happenings at Hong Kong and Xinjiang epitomize that.

I do think China's expansionist policy bodes poorly for all of humanity.

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jhedwards ◴[01 Oct 19 17:04 UTC] No.21127780[source]▶
> Present-day China essentially has no ethics

Source? I lived in China and didn't ever feel like I was in a place without ethics. Different ethics, sure, but it really looks to me like you simply don't know or understand China.

The Great Leap Forward had nothing to do with routing out values, it was about hyper-fast industrialization, and it failed.

There are real problems with modern China, and, separately, with the CCP, for example a lack of separation of powers and a lack of rule of law. But your statements look much more like fear of the other and demonization of what you don't understand that well reasoned arguments.

If you live in China, you'll experience some things that are much better than they are in western countries. I'm not saying there's any comparison really, but the fact is that the reality is far more complex than you're making it out to be.

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1. SimbaOnSteroids ◴[01 Oct 19 17:21 UTC] No.21127979[source]▶
If you kill political dissidents and harvest their organs as part of an active genocide campaign, you lose any claim at behaving ethically. Ethics are measured by the actions you take that you'd rather not advertise.
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2. jhedwards ◴[01 Oct 19 17:40 UTC] No.21128254[source]▶
Part of my point is that this is being done by the CCP. If you want to say the CCP doesn't have ethics that's a different argument than "China doesn't have ethics", and I don't think that's too pedantic too point out.
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3. netsharc ◴[01 Oct 19 17:48 UTC] No.21128377[source]▶
Is it whataboutism to mention toddlers in cages here? It seems both governments have their gas chamber moments...
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4. soperj ◴[01 Oct 19 17:53 UTC] No.21128460[source]▶
Same as when you water-board people.
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5. hobofan ◴[01 Oct 19 18:24 UTC] No.21128884[source]▶
I think that distinction is already sufficiently implied.

China/<Country's name> == The government of China/<The government of Country>

and

The Chinese == The inhabitants of China

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6. sdinsn ◴[01 Oct 19 18:47 UTC] No.21129139[source]▶
When he refers to "China" he is talking about the government, AKA the CCP.
7. takamh ◴[01 Oct 19 19:02 UTC] No.21129299[source]▶
No it's not. This isn't Reddit where any average Joe thinks whataboutism is the answer to any evidence they don't agree with.
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8. SimbaOnSteroids ◴[01 Oct 19 19:15 UTC] No.21129424{3}[source]▶
Yes it is, the treatment of children at the border is also horrendous, it also has literally nothing to do with china and ethics.
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9. SimbaOnSteroids ◴[01 Oct 19 19:21 UTC] No.21129482[source]▶
Nanking was ethical because Manzanar.

Unit 731 was ethical because Tuskegee.

The Opium Wars were ethical because the CCP does nothing to stop the flow of fentanyl overseas.

All of these are as ridiculous as what your comment implies, they're also equally relevant.

10. CharlesColeman ◴[01 Oct 19 19:41 UTC] No.21129696{3}[source]▶
> I think that distinction is already sufficiently implied.

No, it's not.

> China/<Country's name> == The government of China/<The government of Country>

> and

> The Chinese == The inhabitants of China

I've had some rather deep political conversations with a few Chinese people, and it's my understanding that education there doesn't stress the distinction between the Chinese nation and the Chinese government. So, using the word "China" to condemn the government can will often be interpreted as condemning the nation and does encourages ordinary Chinese to stand by their government, right or wrong. Don't do that.

If you want to condemn the Chinese government, name the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) in your condemnations, for clarity's sake.

11. carapace ◴[01 Oct 19 19:42 UTC] No.21129711[source]▶
Do the people going to the clinics for life-saving organ transplants know that the organs are coming from prisoners who do not give them up voluntarily?

Where did the CCP get all the doctors and nurses who carry out the vivisections and transplantations?

I don't want to engage in what I call the "calculus of evil".

I wonder how many Americans would fly to China to get organs to save their lives knowing where the organs come from.

12. takamh ◴[01 Oct 19 20:09 UTC] No.21130003{4}[source]▶
And here you see first-hand the decline in the quality of discourse in HN
13. netsharc ◴[02 Oct 19 11:35 UTC] No.21135304{4}[source]▶
You claim the organ harvesting means the whole government can't claim to have ethics, I think that's just stupid absolutism (the world doesn't work with Boolean logic), and my counter-example is to ask if the US government can claim to be ethical given that we know they've put toddlers in cages.

I can probably give out examples of "unethical" behavior for every government on this planet, and then no one will be ethical any more. What then?