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550 points polskibus | 26 comments | | HN request time: 0.238s | source | bottom
1. reaperducer ◴[] No.19117552[source]
At first I thought that this might be another good indication that having "Facebook" on your resume isn't the golden egg it once was.

Then I realize it's even better than before because it demonstrates for a potential employer that you'll push whatever buttons you're asked to in exchange for money, regardless of whether it's good for the user, the internet, or society as a whole.

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2. minikites ◴[] No.19117651[source]
This is why I genuinely believe STEM majors should be required to take more liberal arts (e.g. ethics) classes as a requirement to graduate.
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3. tqi ◴[] No.19117764[source]
Sure, we could all stand to be more well rounded. Liberal Arts majors should be required to take more science courses so they don't fall for dumb stuff like climate change denial or anti-vax nonsense.
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4. ianschenck ◴[] No.19117935[source]
I agree, philosophy of science/STS. And Paul Conte once told my father he believed programmers should have a base in cognitive psychology.

I enjoyed my liberal arts electives far more than any engineering, math or other field-related course.

Oh well.

5. ahakki ◴[] No.19117971[source]
Yes, I fully agree. The liberal arts are of utmost importantce to our culture and society as a whole. I cringe everytime I hear people say that access to these studies should be limited because they aren’t economicly viable.

We don’t just need resources to live, we also need a reason.

6. chillacy ◴[] No.19118032[source]
A semester of philosophy or a few weeks on HN should teach you that you can weasel out of anything by playing epistemological games or arguing semantics.
7. manigandham ◴[] No.19118039[source]
It's a giant company with many roles. I'd be more worried about people hiring based on such strange judgements of character.
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8. reaperducer ◴[] No.19118112[source]
I'd be more worried about people hiring based on such strange judgements of character.

I wouldn't. Over the decades I've seen many people hire, and later regret hiring, people who demonstrated poor character.

In a more public sense, remember the Bush-Clinton election where the full version of the fabled "It's the economy, stupid" slogan was "Character doesn't matter; it's the economy, stupid." And we see what happened when someone of poor character got power and an intern.

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9. manigandham ◴[] No.19118162{3}[source]
The post is about judging people's character simply by where they work and in the most ungracious terms. Doing that actually is poor character.
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10. minikites ◴[] No.19118165{3}[source]
>Liberal Arts majors should be required to take more science courses

They are, that's the point of a liberal arts education:

https://college.harvard.edu/what-liberal-arts-education

>In our liberal arts program, students are broadly educated in the social sciences, the natural sciences and the humanities, as well as trained in a particular academic field of specialization called a concentration.

https://admission.princeton.edu/academics/what-does-liberal-...

>By exploring issues, ideas and methods across the humanities and the arts, and the natural and social sciences

https://www.aacu.org/leap/what-is-a-liberal-education

>It provides students with broad knowledge of the wider world (e.g. science, culture, and society)

11. RoboticWater ◴[] No.19118193{3}[source]
I can't seem to find any data which suggests that Liberal Arts majors are significantly more likely to fall for climate change denial or the anti-vax movement. I find that most studies correlate political leaning with these beliefs, not area of study. Given that the Liberal Arts are overwhelmingly liberal in the US, I'd say your claim is probably wrong.

If anything, a Liberal Arts educations ought to provide students a higher degree of skepticism towards all expressions of ideology, and seek to find the truth through critical research. Obviously, that's the ideal, note necessarily the reality in all cases, but it seems your notion of Liberal Arts is more akin to "hippy-dippy" nonsense, not critical study.

12. engineeringwoke ◴[] No.19118430{4}[source]
Well you could choose to work at a company that doesn’t treat human beings like money machines?

Or you could choose to not lie to yourself about said humans as money machines ideals with classic tropes like “there’s a lot of different teams” or “I haven’t seen that kind of thing at my local office”?

Throwing out a couple options here that don’t require intense mental gymnastics

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13. manigandham ◴[] No.19118719{5}[source]
Distilling everything into such simplistic and disingenuous examples like "humans as money machines" is never productive, and a rather poor way to argue against thinking more intensively about a subject.

Facebook provides value for billions of people as evidenced by their usage. They don't pay so ads are a trade-off. There's nothing inherently wrong with that unless you have a problem with how business works. And yes, a company that is one of the 10 most valuable in the world has a wide range of roles and there are infinite reasons why someone would work for them.

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14. engineeringwoke ◴[] No.19118752{6}[source]
Red herrings are also a poor way to argue the contrary ;)
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15. vikasnair ◴[] No.19118821{5}[source]
Perhaps FB is the only company that extended an offer with reasonable pay, or perhaps the only company willing to sponsor a Visa.

The list of possible extenuating circumstances extends to infinity when you think about it more deliberately. If you don’t, you’ve successfully bucketed someone based on quick, irrational judgment. That is poor behavior.

16. manigandham ◴[] No.19118828{7}[source]
Ok. You previously stated [1] that you "work in finance" and then described it in the same comment as "People hate finance because at the core it's sales and you make your keep by being predatory since everyone does it."

Perhaps you should have chosen not to work in finance then? Doesn't that industry quite literally "treat human beings like money machines"? Does this judgement not apply to you too?

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18997658

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17. blub ◴[] No.19118875{4}[source]
You're always cheerleading for the advertising industry, so I don't think anyone will be changing your mind soon.

That being said, it should be obvious even to you that the place where one invests one third of their day for years on end defines a large part of who that person is and how they behave during the other 2/3rds of the day.

I remember reading an article a few years ago where several senior ex-Facebook employees were horrified at what they did and were trying to protect their kids from the monster of online advertising. Funny how that becomes clearer once one's income doesn't depend on advertising any more.

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18. manigandham ◴[] No.19118913{5}[source]
There's nothing inherently wrong with advertising, and offering ads in exchange for free services is perfectly fair. As far as Facebook's underhanded practices, I'm definitely against them but I'm sure you realize there is nuance when talking about such a big organization and the life choices of everyone who works there.

As far as "cheerleading for the ad industry", I also built an adblocker, spent 6 figures to test alternative payments, am part of every initiative to make ads better, and have spoken with senators to push for regulation. But you wouldn't know that with the quick character judgement that you seemed to make, which is ironically the actual subject of this thread.

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19. engineeringwoke ◴[] No.19119009{8}[source]
Yes, I am aware. That's why I quit finance, taught myself software engineering, and moved to northern Europe. Combing through my post history is a pathetic attempt at saving damage to your precious ego
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20. 0xffff2 ◴[] No.19119062[source]
We do though? I had to take two GE philosophy courses and an engineering ethics course to get my degree.
21. dlandis ◴[] No.19119113[source]
> Then I realize it's even better than before because it demonstrates for a potential employer that you'll push whatever buttons you're asked to in exchange for money...

Well you don't know why the person left the company...maybe they were dissatisfied with its direction/practices.

22. manigandham ◴[] No.19119162{9}[source]
I think you lost the topic here. The OP was talking about judging people based on just having Facebook on their resume. Likewise, under that rule, you too would be judged for having worked in finance. Your history is therefore relevant, and by your arguments I'm assuming you think it's fair to judge that way?

Good for you for changing careers but that doesn't make you better than anyone else nor is it applicable to any other person's life. Anyway, I'm not sure what ego has to do with anything but I'll take that as a sign that there are no better arguments forthcoming.

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23. engineeringwoke ◴[] No.19119249{10}[source]
I'm okay with a prospective employer judging my finance past similarly to a past that includes Facebook. Ego has everything to do with failed ad hominem attacks, my friend
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24. root_axis ◴[] No.19119355{3}[source]
Would you apply the same hiring filters to military vets? Police officers? Petrolium Engineers?
25. manigandham ◴[] No.19119715{11}[source]
Then we disagree on making snap judgements of character based on just work history. I don't understand how that is ever a good thing.

However that comment wasn't an "ad hominem attack", but I suspect we disagree on the definition of that as well.

26. blub ◴[] No.19122313{6}[source]
Actually there is something inherently wrong with advertising: it manipulates people into buying things by making them feel ugly, uncool, alone or using completely irrelevant information instead of facts. Like the award-winning, stupid, fat santa commercials for a certain sugary drink.

It's a surprise to read that you want to regulate advertising, given your continous criticism of the GDPR and support of data collection in several comments.

What exactly do you understand by better ads and what kind of regulation do you support? Are we talking about yet another one of those "industry successfully regulates itself" stories?