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1895 points _l4jh | 8 comments | | HN request time: 0.685s | source | bottom
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rdsubhas ◴[] No.16728163[source]
> We will never sell your data or use it to target ads. Period.

Won't sell != Won't collect

> We will never log your IP address (the way other companies identify you)

Never log IP != Never log anything

Bonus: The way other companies identify you ~= There are other ways

Edit: Looks like many people assume I'm nitpicking. So here are more specific questions:

* Is logging a hashcode of the IP considered as "not logging the IP"?

* Can combination of timestamp, packet info other than end IP (latency, hops, etc), geoIP and other factors be used for deep intelligence?

replies(6): >>16728183 #>>16728191 #>>16728195 #>>16728266 #>>16729111 #>>16729896 #
1. superkuh ◴[] No.16728191[source]
And since it's cloudflare if some site's politics don't align with the owner's politics they'll just block it arbitrarily.
replies(2): >>16728243 #>>16729103 #
2. dd36 ◴[] No.16728243[source]
Any examples of this besides the KKK?
replies(1): >>16728433 #
3. superkuh ◴[] No.16728433[source]
So, you're implying things here that I'll address with an H. L. Mencken quote,

>"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

replies(1): >>16728799 #
4. Afforess ◴[] No.16728799{3}[source]
"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire

Universal free speech is not laudable, it's suicidal. If your free speech doesn't protect you from those who want to take it away, they will win, on a long enough time horizon. They only need to win once.

replies(1): >>16730745 #
5. manigandham ◴[] No.16729103[source]
It's a private organization with no monopoly and lots of competition. Free speech doesn't apply here.

Also Cloudflare gets vastly more negative opinions that they don't check enough and serve too many unsavory sites so it seems there's no way to win with the HN crowd.

replies(1): >>16730930 #
6. superkuh ◴[] No.16730745{4}[source]
Wow. I can't tell if you're trying to be funny by being meta or you just don't realize what you just said applies to your very argument. Lets break it down.

You want to protect free speech by taking it away because if you don't then someone might use free speech to take away free speech.

First, speech is not an action that can violate your rights. Sticks and stones, etc. And no, just because communication can help organize your political opposition does not mean the speech itself is violating your rights. Actions and legislation do that.

Second, deciding that some things are allowed and some aren't and then enforcing those arbitrary decisions through violence by the state certainly can violate those rights. And and gets easier and more every time.

I suppose you think that limited free speech is a thing that can persist. I strongly disagree. The idea of universe free speech is because any attempt to regulate leads to the loss of all of it fairly quickly if not instantly; they only need to win once. It exists to protect opinions that are disliked by most if not all.

I see your argument is basically that if free speech allows for speech that supports the idea of not allowing free speech then it will fail. And that may be true. That's why constant villigance is required even, especially, when they try to use people who's opinion almost everyone hates to justify it. There is no final solution.

7. superkuh ◴[] No.16730930[source]
It set the precedent that they do filtering. It is now being used in legal cases against Cloudflare by companies suing them to force them to filter other things.

Any censorship immediately leads to massive censorship even if they don't want to expand it. That's why it has to be stopped at the start; not done at all. Dumb pipe or censorship pipe.

replies(1): >>16731968 #
8. manigandham ◴[] No.16731968{3}[source]
No business is completely a dumb pipe, the DMCA provisions are very specific and are increasingly overruled once enough (copyrighted) content is in place.

Cloudflare also specifically removed that site for a stated reason that they claimed CF was helping them. That is outside the bounds of the site content itself and is a perfectly fine argument to stop doing business based on libel and misrepresentation.