Most active commenters

    ←back to thread

    Tiananmen Square 1989 death toll was at least 10,000 according to UK documents

    (www.bbc.co.uk)
    362 points ComputerGuru | 11 comments | 23 Dec 17 12:36 UTC | HN request time: 0.928s | source | bottom
    Show context
    votepaunchy ◴[23 Dec 17 13:20 UTC] No.15994045[source]▶
    What did they do with all the bodies?

    "Students linked arms but were mown down including soldiers. APCs then ran over bodies time and time again to make 'pie' and remains collected by bulldozer. Remains incinerated and then hosed down drains.“

    replies(4): >>15994065 #>>15994108 #>>15994125 #>>15994127 #
    bartread ◴[23 Dec 17 13:26 UTC] No.15994065[source]▶
    Reading that made me feel physically sick, and then the line afterwards about the girls begging for their lives who were bayonetted. Just awful.

    I have, and probably always will, find Chinese culture somewhat fascinating but I have no love for their political regime.

    replies(2): >>15994173 #>>15994266 #
    hux_[dead post] ◴[23 Dec 17 13:59 UTC] No.15994173[source]▶
    Yup in contrast the American regime has about 1000x [1] the death toll but at least those people weren't bulldozed and it didn't make you and me feel too bad. Calling the other side evil is easy. Spotting hypocrisy is easy. Doing something about hyprocisy is much harder. It involves admitting to ourselves that all of us are capable of doing dumb shit.

    [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

    1. fastball ◴[23 Dec 17 14:28 UTC] No.15994257[source]▶
    A couple things to unpack here:

    Firstly, I'm not sure we're reading the same article, but by my summary count, the total death toll for all combined US war crimes detailed in that article isn't much more than 10,000.

    Next, the veracity of some of those claims is questionable at best.

    Finally, it should be noted that the Tiananmen Square protests, were, in fact, protests. This was not an action against civilians during war time, this was an action taken by a government against it's own citizens who were protesting.

    Is killing unarmed soldiers or civilians in war time justified? Generally no. But it's a different type of crime when you're in the middle of a war zone. Humans don't deal well with the insane nature of war, and so they do horrible things. That's not an excuse, mind you. But I think collateral damage in a war and civilian casualties in a war zone are very different scenarios than Tiananmen Square.

    replies(2): >>15994303 #>>15994556 #
    2. jbooth ◴[23 Dec 17 14:38 UTC] No.15994303[source]▶
    You ever see the shock and awe videos of Baghdad? That our government approvingly worked with cable news to make sure everyone saw it? For an operation very much not endorsed by the UN or international community?

    Good thing that's not a war crime, though.

    replies(2): >>15994331 #>>15994335 #
    3. ryanmarsh ◴[23 Dec 17 14:48 UTC] No.15994331[source]▶
    Shock and awe was a brief bombing campaign that hit military and administrative buildings late at night when they were empty. I saw the buildings. They were not apartment blocks. If anyone died in that campaign it was purely by accident.
    replies(1): >>15995690 #
    4. ceejayoz ◴[23 Dec 17 14:49 UTC] No.15994335[source]▶
    > You ever see the shock and awe videos of Baghdad?

    The ones using precision munitions on generally evacuated government buildings?

    You're really going to try comparing that to massacring unarmed protesters?

    replies(1): >>15994376 #
    5. jbooth ◴[23 Dec 17 15:01 UTC] No.15994376{3}[source]▶
    Yeah, those. Watch the video and tell me how bloodless it was. Or how it's not a massacre.

    I'm not defending a thing about Tiananmen square, I'm just marvelling at the power of nationalism to excuse anything.

    Bunch of snakes in suits with American flag pins declare a war for no reason, knowing that hundreds of thousands will die, but it's all Legitimate State Behavior. I'm sure it's a huge comfort to the orphans.

    replies(1): >>15995059 #
    6. tw04 ◴[23 Dec 17 15:45 UTC] No.15994556[source]▶
    It's not as if the US ever killed off a bunch of innocent people outside of war, and still ignores them when it doesn't suit their interests (see keystone XL pipeline):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_indigeno...

    replies(1): >>15995671 #
    7. ceejayoz ◴[23 Dec 17 17:12 UTC] No.15995059{4}[source]▶
    Looks pretty bloodless. Are there specific videos you're looking for me to peruse?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yr-LaMhvro

    Now, the Iraq War and it's aftermath as a whole weren't bloodless, for sure. The "they'll greet us as liberators and there'll be a Western-style democracy in 90 days!" stuff was transparent bullshit.

    Shock and awe was a specific bombing campaign, hitting palaces, military HQs, communications nexuses, etc. The targets chosen made it easy to avoid large numbers of civilian casualties, and trying to compare it to stuff like Tiananmen Square is just silly.

    8. ◴[23 Dec 17 19:06 UTC] No.15995671[source]▶
    9. ryanmarsh ◴[23 Dec 17 19:11 UTC] No.15995690{3}[source]▶
    Go ahead, downvote me. I was there mother fuckers.
    replies(2): >>15996742 #>>15996807 #
    10. dang ◴[23 Dec 17 22:53 UTC] No.15996742{4}[source]▶
    It's interesting that you were there, but please don't break the site rules here.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

    11. szatkus ◴[23 Dec 17 23:04 UTC] No.15996807{4}[source]▶
    I'm more interested in hearing your story than downvoting you.