Most active commenters
  • virgil_disgr4ce(4)
  • dang(3)

←back to thread

791 points 317070 | 21 comments | | HN request time: 1.072s | source | bottom
1. mberning ◴[] No.15010420[source]
A truly revolutionary idea in this era of authoritarian social justice causes.
replies(2): >>15010590 #>>15011014 #
2. virgil_disgr4ce ◴[] No.15010590[source]
In what way are social justice causes authoritarian?
replies(2): >>15010645 #>>15010660 #
3. reitanqild ◴[] No.15010645[source]
Not in itself. I'll even sometimes step up myself and at some point managed to get my boss to hire the girl who cleaned our offices since she was qualified only hadn't been considered since she was Polish.

The insistence on punishment (firing, public shaming) for minor offences (wrongthink) withouth due process is worrying though.

replies(2): >>15010725 #>>15010769 #
4. virgil_disgr4ce ◴[] No.15010660[source]
Why is this question downvoted?
replies(2): >>15010743 #>>15013231 #
5. Frondo ◴[] No.15010725{3}[source]
I'm going to push back on the critique of shaming. It's literally the only consequence groups without any (economic/political) power have. It bears no force of law. It creates no consequence directly except for a little discomfort on the part of the recipient.

Tell historically disadvantaged communities--the ones with decades or centuries of societal biases working against them--they can't shame people they think are behaving shamefully, and what do you leave them with?

The critique of shaming just seems like another way to prop up a status quo that isn't a very good one for a lot of people.

replies(4): >>15010767 #>>15010818 #>>15010873 #>>15011946 #
6. arkitaip ◴[] No.15010743{3}[source]
HN has a terrible bias towards white dudes and now that it's their privilege that's being questioned - as opposed to that of blur collar workers, conservatives, hillbillies etc - they are in full panic mode. Can't even discuss or take in another POV - just downvote.
replies(1): >>15010775 #
7. virgil_disgr4ce ◴[] No.15010767{4}[source]
Well put—thank you.
8. mediocrejoker ◴[] No.15010769{3}[source]
Public shaming for wrongthink? I have no idea what you are talking about, nor how it relates to the article.

Can you explain a bit more?

9. virgil_disgr4ce ◴[] No.15010775{4}[source]
Yes, I have noticed. :(
10. reitanqild ◴[] No.15010818{4}[source]
It's literally the only consequence groups without any (economic/political) power have.

To me it seems it is more used by resourceful people.

11. philwelch ◴[] No.15010873{4}[source]
Shaming people is an exercise of political power. If a group truly lacks political power, they're not capable of effectively shaming anyone.
12. dang ◴[] No.15011014[source]
Generic ideological tangents never lead anywhere interesting and pretty much guarantee contentless flamewars, so please don't take HN threads in such directions.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15010185 and marked it off-topic.

replies(1): >>15011494 #
13. JelteF ◴[] No.15011494[source]
Could you explain why this post is disapearing from the frontpage as fast as it is? Even though it has the most votes in very little time. (see my other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15011458)
replies(1): >>15011599 #
14. dang ◴[] No.15011599{3}[source]
Users are flagging it heavily, as they have been flagging most opinion pieces that have appeared during this tidal wave.

People who feel strongly one way or the other typically want to see the articles they agree with stay on the front page and the ones they disagree with get flagged. But from a systemic point of view, it isn't in HN's interest to have the front page dominated by repetitive arguments (and certainly not repetitive flamewars) about the same thing. That's not what the site is for and not why the majority of HN users come here.

replies(3): >>15011897 #>>15011898 #>>15012323 #
15. mberning ◴[] No.15011897{4}[source]
I find the stance of HN admins/managers on these type stories incredibly biased. When something is agreeable to the "more X in tech" trope it stays on the front page for hours and gets hundreds of points. When a story that is counter to that trope gains traction it quickly drops off the page and admins/managers are all over the discussion picking and chosing what to suppress. The whole google memo/James Damore thing is a perfect example of this. I don't know if it is general community bias, astroturfing, censorship, or whatever. It is clear that the community has a lot of interest in this and some entity is very eager to minimize the discussion. It's disgusting.
replies(1): >>15012529 #
16. msla ◴[] No.15011946{4}[source]
Shaming by some groups is a badge of honor: If I'm hated by a certain unpopular political group, that's a real point in my favor in some regions. It's credibility you can't buy. And it doesn't matter if the group which hates me is powerful, as long as they're hated in turn by the people I want credibility with.

The only way shaming hurts me is if the group doing the shaming is powerful among people I care about. Thus shaming is an expression of power, and a use of social force which must come from groups which have power.

replies(1): >>15019466 #
17. ergo14 ◴[] No.15012323{4}[source]
I think maybe flagging needs to be reworked into: - spam - nsfw content - breaks the rules

So people can flag "bad" stuff and don't remove topics based on their political/social views instead? Currently the system seems to be broken if this happens. This way you could easly penalize the users who try to manipulate by flagging "valid" topics.

replies(1): >>15012868 #
18. dang ◴[] No.15012529{5}[source]
I hear you that it seems that way, but it seems the opposite way to people on the opposite side.

Plenty of articles arguing both sides of this hurricane have spent time on HN's front page, and there have been many thousands of comments for and against. At this point nothing new is emerging. If significant new information appears in the developing news story, that's fine, but until that happens, these threads are effectively dupes and it's not unfair for users to flag them. Repetitive rehashing of the same scorched earth is not why most people come here.

Re HN moderation, the phenomenon behind your perception is that both sides of each ideological divide believe, quite fervently, that we're secretly moderating HN to favor the opposing agenda. I'd love to figure out something we could do about this, but alas there doesn't seem much hope of it. For sure these accusations can't all be right since they say opposite things, and what's remarkable is how similar they are except for the one flipped ideological bit.

More on this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14994960 and lots more at https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=... if anyone is interested.

19. ◴[] No.15012868{5}[source]
20. thinkfurther ◴[] No.15013231{3}[source]
Why are you not dealing with the response? The very fact that this story got flagged to page two after 5 hours, with 600+ points and only 300+ comments, kind of shows what's going on.
21. Powerofmene ◴[] No.15019466{5}[source]
This goes back to that old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."