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    383 points imartin2k | 11 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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    fiatjaf ◴[] No.14330452[source]
    I don't understand what is wrong with Uber Eats charging whatever price they want to charge. If $4.4 is too low just don't work for them. There are probably people for which this is a good price. If not, it's Uber Eats problem, not yours.
    replies(9): >>14330479 #>>14330508 #>>14330552 #>>14330563 #>>14330623 #>>14330949 #>>14331012 #>>14331032 #>>14331385 #
    1. moxious ◴[] No.14330479[source]
    It's not black and white. What looks to you like the free choice of people choosing to work for $4.4 may look to others like a forced situation. What I think you're missing is that your assumption that everyone can freely choose and has alternatives is clearly mistaken.
    replies(1): >>14330502 #
    2. reustle ◴[] No.14330502[source]
    > may look to others like a forced situation. What I think you're missing is that your assumption that everyone can freely choose and has alternatives is clearly mistaken.

    Could you please elaborate? I don't exactly follow. Nobody is forcing them to work for Uber. If what you mean is they have bills to pay, etc, it's not like Uber can just magically decide to pay $9/hr, they will likely need to cut most of the jobs at that point anyway.

    replies(3): >>14330553 #>>14330618 #>>14330645 #
    3. toomuchtodo ◴[] No.14330553[source]
    Uber takes advantage of a lack of (or poor quality) social safety nets. Like Walmart. Its exploitative.
    replies(2): >>14330591 #>>14331115 #
    4. reustle ◴[] No.14330591{3}[source]
    But is that the fault of Uber (or Walmart)? Isn't them having a crap job better than no job? Yea it's not awesome that the pay is low, but at least they are employing some people. If the pay was higher they probably couldn't​ create the same service at a sustainable price point?
    replies(2): >>14330793 #>>14332541 #
    5. Matt3o12_ ◴[] No.14330618[source]
    There are some jobs which need to be filled by humans who have very little skills. These jobs need to (or can) exist (because they cannot be automated, yet). Fortunately, cutting the workforce also means there will be less delivers and thus less revenue, so these people would get hired anyways. So paying the people really comes down to how much to charge the customer. I would think that most customers would not mind a $3 delivery fee (whether this is included in the price or a extra markup does not matter). Assuming the delivery person can deliver to 4 people (which should be possible in cities), they make an extra $12.

    The $3 markup only becomes apparent when a competitor is cheaper then the other players, in which case the competitor gets more orders and make more revenue. Now if there was a law, called minimum wage, which forces employers to pay enough to make a living, there would be no extreme price cutting. Still, about the same amount of people would be employed (maybe slightly less, but most people will still order the meal whether it is $20 or $23 assuming there is no cheaper alternative which fits there needs).

    If we do not have those protections, we end up in a situation similar to the Industrial Revolution in Europe where people (and their children) work for 12+ hours a day and still starve to death. Those jobs would exist anyways because the demand does not decrease significantly if the wages rise (this is of course not true for every industry) but by having two competitors cutting down each other at the expense of the employee is bad for everybody if you consider the long term consequences.

    6. waisbrot ◴[] No.14330645[source]
    Simplistically: people can either work or not work. Nearly everyone will chose "work" because it's nice to feel useful, even if that work doesn't pay a living wage.

    If people are not earning a living wage, societies can either let them die in the street or subsidize them. Most societies will choose the later, because they're made of humans and not monsters.

    That means that there really is a minimum wage, but it's paid in part or in full by the society. Companies that pay less than a living wage exploit the "humans don't like watching children starve to death" vulnerability and effectively steal from society. Additionally, paying a lower wage lets them offer a lower price to consumers which can drive out companies that were paying their customers an actual wage.

    replies(2): >>14330836 #>>14331171 #
    7. fiatjaf ◴[] No.14330836{3}[source]
    So you would rather have no UberEats than UberEats pahying $4.4?
    8. troupe ◴[] No.14331115{3}[source]
    So would you describe Sweden as a place with poor quality social safety nets?

    According to the article people who want to deliver have at least two choices and one pays significantly more than the other because Uber doesn't have enough volume right now and the volume they do have tends to go to people who have been delivering for some time.

    The article says that with Foodora you can make more money starting out, but they schedule when you work. With Uber you just work whenever you want. People trying to decide which service they want to work for are going to use those factors to make a decision. I think it is hard to claim it is exploitative when people clearly have a choice where they work. Keep in mind Sweden doesn't have particularly high unemployment either, so there are a lot of other options out there in addition to these two.

    replies(1): >>14332523 #
    9. lotsofpulp ◴[] No.14331171{3}[source]
    Whether or not the statement "nearly everyone will chose to "work" is true, the problem that must be solves is how to incentivize someone to do the work that no one wants to do.

    It's entirely possible that providing a "living" wage to a food delivery person just isn't worth it for consumers so they would rather just go get it themselves.

    The conundrum is creating a system where there enough incentive is created to do the work no one wants, but at the same time distribute resources so that everyone is provided some definition of "standard of living". This is difficult when the value of (most) human's work is ever decreasing.

    10. Fnoord ◴[] No.14332523{4}[source]
    > So would you describe Sweden as a place with poor quality social safety nets?

    No, but a proposition like that doesn't address the details.

    Reading through this thread its clear that Sweden doesn't have minimum wage; they have strong unions instead (FWIW, I don't see how those are mutually exclusive). Problem is that unions are circumvented partly or completely by freelance constructions like the one we're discussing (another example would be MLM constructions). That needs to be addressed, by law enforcement or lawmakers (politicians). In order to achieve that, publicity like this may aid that goal.

    11. Fnoord ◴[] No.14332541{4}[source]
    The 'at least they get paid' argument is the one also being used by those who order takeaway food, and those who buy blood diamonds, blood gold, and entire clothes industry alike.

    Nevermind the fact these people work in terrible conditions. Nevermind the fact these people work with chemicals which are unhealthy. Nevermind the fact these people ignore traffic regulations because they need to arrive on time. Nevermind the fact these people are children who go down in dangerous mines with gas which can also implode at any time.

    It is a fallacy. The real solution to the issue is far more simple: let those who desire takeaway food (or who desire diamonds, gold, or clothes) pay a fair price, so that the workers get paid a fair price.