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Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

661 points pg | 4 comments | 21 Mar 14 23:49 UTC | HN request time: 0.858s | source

A surprisingly long time ago (2013 was a busy year) I mentioned a new plan to improve the quality of comments on Hacker News:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6009523

Since I'm going to check out of HN at the end of this YC cycle, this was my last chance to get this done. I didn't want the people who are going to inherit HN from me to have to build it as their first project, because it interacts with so many different bits of the code in such subtle ways.

So I found time to implement pending comments this past week, and with any luck it will launch tonight. Since it's a big change, I wanted to warn HN users in advance.

Here's how it currently works. From now on, when you post a comment, it won't initially be live. It will be in a new state called pending. Comments get from pending to live by being endorsed by multiple HN users with over 1000 karma. Those users will see pending comments, and will be able to endorse them by clicking on an "endorse" link next to the "flag" link.

Someone who has a pending comment will have to wait till it goes live to post another. We're hoping that good comments will get endorsed so quickly that there won't be a noticeable delay.

You can currently beat the system by posting an innocuous comment, waiting for it to be endorsed, and then after it's live, changing it to say something worse. We explicitly ask people not to do this. While we have no software for catching it, humans will notice, and we'll ban you.

Along with the change in software will come a change in policy. We're going to ask users with the ability to endorse comments only to endorse those that:

1. Say something substantial. E.g. not just a throwaway remark, or the kind of "Yes you did, No I didn't" bickering that races toward the right side of the page and no one cares about except the participants.

2. Say it without gratuitous nastiness. In particular, a comment in reply to another comment should be written in the spirit of colleagues cooperating in good faith to figure out the truth about something, not politicians trying to ridicule and misrepresent the other side.

People who regularly endorse comments that fail one or both of these tests will lose the ability to endorse comments. So if you're not sure whether you should endorse a comment, don't. There are a lot of people on HN. If a point is important, someone else will probably come along and make it without gratuitous nastiness.

I hope this will improve the quality of HN comments significantly, but we'll need your help to make it work, and your forbearance if, as usually happens, some things go wrong initially.

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timo614 ◴[22 Mar 14 02:49 UTC] No.7447067[source]▶
Since this will probably be the last time a comment of mine appears in HN due to the new system I figured I'd give my take on it.

I'm someone who doesn't join in threads pretty often; I'll chime in if I find the topic to be something I'm interested in but my ignorance to most other matters leaves me from wanting to join into threads because of a fear of people piling on negative responses or "schooling" me in terms of the topic at hand.

I don't submit new articles because most things I'm interested in are discovered by more well connected individuals so I'm usually late the party so my score is relatively low despite how long I've lurked.

I'm fearful this new system discourages my participation further; if I don't add some insightful comment or my ignorance of a topic causes others to question whether my opinion is worth discussing I'll be kept from participating because I haven't built up a score. I won't even have the chance to join future conversations because my comments will be pending so until someone decides my opinion has merit I'll be censored from joining into other aspects of an article.

I may not be the most social of the HN folks here on the board but I do like to join into conversations when the topic is of interest to me. I guess this sort of system just makes me feel unwelcome because I'm being punished for not joining in earlier.

Even the most negative comments incite conversation; a person who may have an unwelcome opinion or whose ignorance prevents them from understanding a topic can learn from discussions based off their response.

I understand the reasoning for this and I think, for the most part, it'll help keep the comments section fairly civil. I'm just worried by solving this issue you're throwing away a part of the community who haven't had a chance to prove ourselves over time. I'm regretful I haven't spent time building up my karma in retrospect.

replies(1): >>7447204 #
1. gruseom ◴[22 Mar 14 03:13 UTC] No.7447204[source]▶
Why wouldn't your comments get endorsed and be seen as much as anyone else's?

Have you perhaps misunderstood the karma restriction to mean that people with less karma will have their comments be less visible? That's not the idea.

replies(1): >>7447306 #
2. timo614 ◴[22 Mar 14 03:29 UTC] No.7447306[source]▶
The problem isn't that I think my comments won't be endorsed. It's more I'll self censor my comments that I think would be less popular because I'd be afraid if I'm censored I wouldn't have a chance to join in future conversations until someone would agree with me.

If I release more popular opinions by the majority I'll be instantly accepted and have a chance to further join in conversations. From a gaming perspective the correct choice to better adapt to the system would be for me to always speak to the majority to increase my odds of being accepted until I am part of the elite caste of folks who can vote.

replies(1): >>7447533 #
3. tptacek ◴[22 Mar 14 04:20 UTC] No.7447533[source]▶
You're missing two important facts: first, that your pending comment eventually (after 24 hours) expires of its own accord, and second, that you can always delete the comment if it's taking too long and holding you up on a better comment you could have written.
replies(1): >>7448106 #
4. prawn ◴[22 Mar 14 07:02 UTC] No.7448106{3}[source]▶
In reading a thread (say, over the course of 5-15 minutes), I will often want to post comments at various points. Because I am not in a popular HN timezone, if I needed to wait for comments to be endorsed, I would find this seriously frustrating. Waiting and checking to see if a comment had been approved would be a huge time sink.

Edit: I think that limit has been lifted to five now.