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graycat ◴[] No.6225296[source]
There are a lot of good remarks in this thread.

I will try to add a point I haven't seen here yet:

Once I was in a big company with a big, famous research lab.

The group I was in, just three of us, was led by a guy who had taken some technical work and published some papers. The journals were peer-reviewed but semi-popular so reached some ordinary business customers. The papers fit in with a lot of hype at the time.

So, some of the customers picked up a phone and called our group for more information. So, presto, we got contact with real customers otherwise essentially forbidden in research.

Why forbidden? Because the sales/marketing guys wanted to be the guys who had total control over all contact with customers.

Eventually our little group broke up, and I wanted to do some research that would lead to products to be sold to customers. I started to discover that no one in the company wanted that. The big guys in research wanted to throttle all contacts outside research and mostly didn't want any. The people in sales, marketing, product development, and product production didn't want to deal with anything new from research. No one wanted a research worker bee talking to real customers.

Next, when research did come up with something that might be of interest to real customers, no one wanted to pursue that opportunity. Again, the marketing people wanted to be the source of all new product/service initiatives. No one in research wanted a research worker bee to get credit/blame having a product go from research to success/failure in the market.

In the end, research was forced to be essentially irrelevant to the business. Finally research was turned into a patent shop so that lawyers could take the big patent portfolio, go to companies, claim patent infringement, and 'license' the patent portfolio.

Point: Generally, a business organization, given a nice new product/service to offer their customers, has multiple layers of organizations and people, processes, reasons, etc. why they just do not, not want to come out with anything new. Period.

Curiously, yes, some of the people at some of the customer organizations were eager to work with our group in research as a way to look more innovative within their own organizations. Here, of course, they didn't have to work through layers of managers but only had to exercise their own freedom to handle their own responsibilities.

So, lesson: Commonly individuals are ready to do and offer new things to others or try new things from others, but it's the layers of managers who block such things.

So, the blockage of these layers of managers is one of the main reasons and opportunities for entrepreneurship.

Yes, it's dumber than paint, but it's usually the way of the world.

replies(1): >>6225419 #
ishansharma ◴[] No.6225419[source]
This whole segmentation is really bad. And from outside, it does seem quite simple.

This brings me to my staple question again: "How in the world those intelligent people with all those qualifications fail to understand something, well, dumber than paint?"

Or is it that majority of layers are full of unwilling/stupid people. I can see people being unwilling. During my time in internship, I became quite hesitant to touch any issue that wasn't assigned to me. QA guy didn't know much about programming and assigned features randomly. And there was no incentive for me to develop a feature assigned to someone else(though being curious, I did "snatch" a feature or two and implemented myself)!

I guess one weak point causes the problems and then they get amplified! That's how offices work.

replies(1): >>6229345 #
1. graycat ◴[] No.6229345[source]
> This brings me to my staple question again: "How in the world those intelligent people with all those qualifications fail to understand something, well, dumber than paint?"

Dumber than paint, but usually not totally irrational for the managers who do such things.

Generally if such dumb behavior is made sufficiently 'public', then nearly everyone will fall in line and agree that, yes, sure, it was dumb and we don't want anything like that going on here.

Otherwise, dumber than paint is common, and here is some of why: You are a manager, at some level, but not CEO, with several subordinates, managers and/or worker bees. One of your subordinates comes to you with a new 'idea' X. Maybe all X is is 'blue sky', back of the envelope, 10 pages of manuscript descriptions and/or mathematical derivations, a carefully prepared paper of 50 pages with technology, market analysis, cost and revenue projections, running prototype software, breadboard hardware, joint research with some leading customers, or some such.

Your mission, and likely you have to accept it, now, is to decide what to do about project X.

Suppose you investigate project X. Okay, that's time and energy away from your assigned duties that count with your manager. So, maybe you put in some weekends investigating project X -- now your spouse is unhappy.

Suppose from your investigation you decide to try to support project X. In simple terms, there are two cases:

Success. Suppose project X is a success in some significant sense, say, the project grows in headcount, budget, floor space, etc. Suppose project X gets some publicity in the company and/or outside. Suppose some major customers hear about project X and tell your marketing people and/or CEO that they want to try X. Etc. Now you can be seen as a bright, rising star, and your management chain from your manager all the way up to but possibly not including the CEO and COB feels threatened by you and will, all together, at the first opportunity, hang you by your toes from a lamppost in the employee parking lot.

Failure. Suppose project X is a failure. Then all the resources you devoted to it will be considered a waste for the company. You will be painted as an incompetent, loose cannon on the deck, and chastised, ostracized, put on the slow track, have a black mark on your career, or just moved out the door.

Commonly there is only one person in the company who can push project X, put up with the blame if X fails, and really benefit from the credit if X succeeds, and that one person is the CEO.

If the CEO sees that you got dumped on for your efforts with project X, then he may shake a finger at the managers in your management chain, but likely you still don't report to the CEO who still needs your management chain for the responsibilities they have been assigned to do.

On the other hand, suppose you decide just to get a list of excuses, that you release only one at a time as needed, for just why project X is 'not appropriate' for your group. That is, you pour cold water on project X and work to kill it. Here you are likely safe from any blame or attacks and don't have to lose some weekends on project X.

So, net, nearly never does anyone get blamed for not innovating.

Really, usually in an organization, there is work to be done, and the management tree is a partition of that work to get it done. No one is holding their breath waiting for innovation to save or even help the company.

The company and its existing products/services, customers, revenue, earnings, stockholders, etc. is a valuable bird in the hand, and any innovation is seen as at best two birds in the bush.

So, possibly one reason for the old 20% time of Google was to let everyone in the organization pursue their case of a project X without blame and, also, to get a hearing, without much risk, in case their project X looks good.

Why stop 20% time? Maybe not much good was coming from the 20% time. Maybe a lot of middle and upper managers got tired of having to evaluate projects they really were not interested in -- a VC can get 2000 contacts from entrepreneurs in a year and invest in 0-3 -- so, that's about 2000 contacts a year tossed in the trash, and maybe Google managers didn't want to evaluate such projects. Maybe the Google top management was concerned that the main work was not getting done fast or well enough. Maybe the 20% time looked like chaos. Whatever.

As we know, Jobs or Woz was at HP, presented to a manager at HP the idea for, say the Apple I, and secretly smiled when the manager said that HP would not be interested.

It remains that some of the most important ideas in computing are authentication, capabilities, and access control lists. These were in good form in the MIT Project MAC computer Multics. Also processor architecture with gate segments, since in Intel's x86 architecture.

Well, Multics was done on a computer from GE, expensive. GE sold their computer division to Honeywell, so Multics was on a Honeywell. Honeywell didn't like selling Multics, and not many were sold -- one sale was in basement of a five sided building on the west bank of the Potomac River. Some engineers at Honeywell saw 'bit sliced' hardware and microcode and concluded that with those two, some extra register sets, a tweaked Fortran compiler, and the Multics hard/software ideas, they could bring up Multics on a single board super-mini computer, sell it, and make money. The story went that the Honeywell managers said that they didn't believe that there could be such a computer, that if there was it wouldn't sell, and even if it did Honeywell would not be interested. So, the engineers started Prime computer, one of the three, along with DEC VAX and DG 'Soul of a New Machine' MV8000, on or near Route 128 in Boston. As I recall, in 1980, Prime yielded the best ROI of any stock on the NYSE. Later Prime got a CEO from a big computer company and went down, down, splash!

It's a very old lesson: Big companies do not, not want to innovate. An explanation doesn't really need the book 'The Innovator's Dilemma' and is simpler -- people acting dumber than paint and, the real cause, getting away with, and even benefiting from, it.

Why? Because nearly no one can be sure that a project X would work. So early on, dropping project X into the bit bucket is not proven to be a disaster. The short term cost is easier to see than the long term gain. Why? Because accurately evaluating a project X is commonly a lot of work and still needs some judgment and with results that really cannot easily be communicated to others, say, higher mangers, the CEO, the Board, security analysts, the tech trade press, or the stockholders. So, dumber than paint is accepted as okay.

Then one of the big opportunities, especially now with the fantastic price/performance of computer hardware, Internet bandwidth, and infrastructure software, is information technology entrepreneurship. Broadly in economic terms we want to automate everything in sight to give higher economic productivity. There should be lots of opportunities, better than wheels, bronze, iron, open ocean sailing, steel, steam, electric power, motors, and lights, internal combustion engines, oil, radio, TV, chemical engineering, "plastics!", etc.

But a bootstrapped entrepreneur can't do a 13 nm microelectronics fabrication facility, an iPhone 10, a Tesla, etc. So, a company with everything in place -- HR, legal, finance, floor space, and cash -- should have a big, huge advantage in innovation, i.e.. powerful, valuable new products that will make a bundle but that small entrepreneurs can't do. So, maybe it's the first HP scientific pocket calculator, the first HP laser/ink jet printer. The Apple iPad, iPhone, etc.

Still, apparently to be good at such 'internal innovation' takes a Jobs. For a Steve Ballmer, John Chambers, Marissa Mayer, Larry Ellison, Page/Brin, maybe the best they can do is to buy a HotMail, YouTube, Tumblr, and just hope not to kill it right away.

Back to my startup!