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The Value of Downvoting, or, How Hacker News Gets It Wrong

(blog.stackoverflow.com)
61 points Anon84 | 2 comments | 09 Mar 09 05:11 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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rglullis ◴[09 Mar 09 18:16 UTC] No.508776[source]▶
The irony of it all is that is the first post that I really wish I could downvote.

C'mon! The guy doesn't know what he's talking about, yet he is quick to say that HN "gets it wrong". Others show him he doesn't know the rules and he replies that the rules should be more explicit, when the fact is this very idiosyncrasy is what helps HN not to grow too much: it takes someone who is really interested in participating in the community to stick around and learn how things work around here.

I'm flagging the link. I never liked Jeff's "from-the-hip" style of blogging, but now more and more of his articles is plain linkbait and a way to get attention to Stackoverflow.

(Btw, Jeff, the whole spiel of writing even when there's nothing to say is annoying and makes more noise than signal. Quantity does not always trump quality. Practice makes it perfect, yes, but all I can say is that you're getting really good at producing crap.)

To have a post on HN with such an inflammatory title and factually wrong claims is downright offensive. It's no different than me going to his office and screaming how stupid he is.

In fact, I'll cancel my rarely-used StackOverflow account.

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codinghorror ◴[10 Mar 09 00:34 UTC] No.509320[source]▶
1) submitted links cannot be voted down. This is, in fact, correct.

2) comments can be voted down, but it's uncommon, and the UI is invisible (literally) to the point that a casual user wouldn't even see it happening on most posts (very few posts go negative). This is a good thing, but it's not at all clear to a new or unsophisticated user that the possibility of being downvoted is on the table at all. Particularly given the front page which does not allow downvotes on submissions.

3) isn't your post the very sort of inflammatory stuff that you're claiming I write?

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1. rglullis ◴[10 Mar 09 03:05 UTC] No.509444[source]▶
1) You've written a critique about the whole HN voting system while being factually correct about only one subsystem - the design decision about submissions.

This is as silly (or arrogant, or plain stupid) as writing a critique of quantum physics just because you know how and when to use Schrödinger's equation.

2) It's not uncommon to downvote comments at all. Again, you are passing your perception as absolute truth. What you may see is few comments that have a negative score. Few downvotes and few negative-score comments are two completely different beasts, and you're inferring wrong things with the information you have available.

3) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflammatory : tending to excite anger, disorder, or tumult.

My comment was a response to your post. It comes off as angry, but it is a reaction to the sort of thing that you write. The post has more than 100 comments, few of them actually accomplishing anything except discussing with you and pointing out why you are wrong.

So, the answer to your question is no; it's your articles that provoke reactions in others and excite disorder. It's your article that is inflammatory, not my comment.

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As a side note about what you write... I get it, Jeff. You're the textbook example of an extroverted person: you need to externalize things to process information. To you, doing supports thinking. For introverts like me (and most of HN, by the way) it's thinking that supports doing.

There is no "right way" here, no "better side" to belong to. The problem lies in taking these opposites to radical extremes, and this is what is happening to you. While hardcore introverts end up suffering from analysis paralysis and never get anything done, you end up doing things carelessly and using "social brute-force": you say whatever comes to mind and expect people to throw you "warning messages" and point you to a better solution.

Your blogging style is the equivalent of the guy that trolls in IRC channels (http://bash.org/?152037) to see if he gets responses from the gurus. This is seriously irritating: not everyone wants to be your "idea compiler", and you consume much of other people's time and energy that could be better used elsewhere.

You may even think that you are being successful with your approach: each post you write will probably make your readership increase more than decrease. But if you believe that, you'd be again relying on the idea that Quantity always trumps Quality, and again you'll be wrong by missing the point about the purpose of something like Hacker News.

Quantity trumps Quality on SO - you are more interested in having hordes of beginner and intermediate techies to drive traffic than lots of experts that don't need to seek technical help as often - but HN is about insightful news and comments, and for that you need the participation of above-average and like-minded people; it's all about quality, not quantity.

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2. codinghorror ◴[10 Mar 09 07:26 UTC] No.509657[source]▶
(in response the section below the line)

This is really a criticism of me, personally.

You don't like me. I don't have a problem with that at all.

The idea that everyone has to like everyone else is unrealistic and dishonest. If everyone likes you, you probably aren't doing anything very interesting.