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Ask PG: Why don’t you open source HN?

114 points muellerwolfram | 13 comments | 04 Jan 13 02:58 UTC | HN request time: 0.62s | source | bottom

I hope it didn’t get asked before, I couldn’t find anything.

There was a question recently, about why you don’t improve the HTML of HN, where you said "When the HTML is the most important thing to work on."(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4927231)

I agree that the markup is relatively unimportant compared to features that I think could really improve the functionality and quality of the site, and I bet you have a long wishlist of features yourself.

But between the lines I interpreted that that list might be way longer, than the time that is available to you, allows you to work on it.

So why don’t you open source HN? I get that with a project that is important to someone, it’s hard to give away control. But you can still be the project lead, you could still have the last call and I feel to open up the project will lead to great feature discussions and ultimately a better hn.

Have you ever considered open sourcing it? And what’s the thought process on your decision?

1. wmf ◴[04 Jan 13 03:10 UTC] No.5006071[source]▶
The source is called news.arc and you can find old versions on the Web, e.g. https://github.com/nex3/arc/ https://github.com/nex3/arc/blob/master/lib/how-to-run-news
replies(1): >>5006109 #
2. muellerwolfram ◴[04 Jan 13 03:22 UTC] No.5006109[source]▶
thanks, but to clarify: I'm not proposing to open source it for the purpose of looking at the code or forking my own HN-version.

instead i'm proposing that building _this_ site becomes an community effort, with open feature discussions and people committing code to the HN code base.

there is an army of people who deeply care about HN, and are very skilled to help out. i think it would be smart to use that asset.

replies(6): >>5006209 #>>5006292 #>>5006344 #>>5006360 #>>5006399 #>>5006781 #
3. atomical ◴[04 Jan 13 03:56 UTC] No.5006209[source]▶
As far as features go, diminishing returns at this point.
replies(1): >>5006366 #
4. wmf ◴[04 Jan 13 04:36 UTC] No.5006292[source]▶
For whatever reason pg just doesn't want to do that. Perhaps he doesn't want building HN itself to become a distraction (for other people) from building more useful stuff like startups. There may be a sort of contradiction where ninja rockstar programmers are too valuable to waste on improving HN, but HN is simultaneously too important to be put in the hands of mediocre programmers.

HN is kind of a double-edged sword because while it is educational it's also distracting and addictive. If making HN better also makes it more of a time-suck, the exercise could be a net negative for the community.

replies(1): >>5006394 #
5. colechristensen ◴[04 Jan 13 05:01 UTC] No.5006344[source]▶
I think any improvements would make this site worse.

It is so very common for projects to inflate with new features until they become useless piles of filth. The fact that HN is a bit clunky is a feature not a bug. It will only attract and retain a certain type.

replies(1): >>5006445 #
6. jaekwon ◴[04 Jan 13 05:08 UTC] No.5006360[source]▶
Eh, _this_ site is a funnel of valuable applicants (and proprietary candidate evaluation tool) for YCombinator. Not to mention the needs-to-be-secret voting-ring detection algos that surely exist by now, this site will likely never be a community project.
7. drivebyacct2 ◴[04 Jan 13 05:10 UTC] No.5006366{3}[source]▶
Really? A mobile friendlier theme? Better markup? Arrows that are pressable? Being able to correct an incorrect comment vote? Those don't change the character of the site but would enhance its usability greatly.
replies(2): >>5006714 #>>5006744 #
8. alexanderh ◴[04 Jan 13 05:26 UTC] No.5006394{3}[source]▶
Reddit aint what it used to be.

Tech oriented users are exiling to other places, including here.

People are disappointed with the current featureset.

I smell opportunity for someone.

9. mcantelon ◴[04 Jan 13 05:29 UTC] No.5006399[source]▶
>instead i'm proposing that building _this_ site becomes an community effort, with open feature discussions and people committing code to the HN code base.

Lamer News is similar to HN and community driven, so if you have energy to spare that's as good a place as any to put it. If pg wanted HN to evolve, it would evolve. Most people are happy with it as-is, tech-wise.

10. muellerwolfram ◴[04 Jan 13 05:44 UTC] No.5006445{3}[source]▶
You probably meant it slightly differently, but improvements that make things worse are per definition not improvements.

I get that people don't want HN to get worse than it is. But i don't get why people think open sourcing it would result in that.

I trust PG would be the kind of project lead who only accepts pull requests that would actually improve the site.

And I trust the community has a lot of smart people who would come up with solutions that would actually improve this site.

11. xentronium ◴[04 Jan 13 08:00 UTC] No.5006714{4}[source]▶
There are mobile clients for hn, arent't there?
12. ryanhuff ◴[04 Jan 13 08:10 UTC] No.5006744{4}[source]▶
Mobile friendly is low hanging fruit. How many improper up/down votes have resulted because of an insanely difficult up/down arrow touch-point? I know that I am responsible for a few.
13. ◴[04 Jan 13 08:29 UTC] No.5006781[source]▶