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Ask HN: Is building a calm, non-gamified learning app a mistake?

86 points hussein-khalil | 7 comments | 15 Dec 25 15:48 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom

I’ve been working on a small language learning app as a solo developer.

I intentionally avoided gamification, streaks, subscriptions, and engagement tricks. The goal was calm learning — fewer distractions, more focus.

I’m starting to wonder if this approach is fundamentally at odds with today’s market.

For those who’ve built or used learning tools: – Does “calm” resonate, or is it too niche? – What trade-offs have you seen when avoiding gamification?

Not here to promote — genuinely looking for perspective.

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Uehreka ◴[15 Dec 25 16:28 UTC] No.46276637[source]▶
Not doing subscriptions for an app that has ongoing server costs is going to bite you, you may want to reconsider that.

Your biggest issue is going to be that language learning for adults is largely an unsolved problem. I know people with 1000+ day streaks on Duolingo who are nonetheless not fluent, and from everything I’ve read, it seems clear that spaced-repetition techniques are not sufficient (and possibly not necessary) to achieve fluency. Most people say you need immersion, which is difficult for an app to provide (research other people who have tried, you probably wouldn’t be the first and can save a lot of time, effort and heartbreak by learning from other people’s failures).

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carabiner ◴[15 Dec 25 17:15 UTC] No.46277300[source]▶
It's solved, look up comprehensible input: https://www.dreaming.com/blog-posts/what-is-comprehensible-i...

The problem is duolingo is particularly horrible and is intended to get people addicted, not educate.

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1. dvt ◴[15 Dec 25 19:27 UTC] No.46279199[source]▶
I'm always a bit weary of theoretical stuff like this. The best way to learn a new language is to move there (preferably somewhere where people don't speak or don't want to speak your native language). I know people that didn't speak a lick of Spanish, moved to Spain, and in a year they're basically fluent. Of course, still struggling with stuff they might not be used to: gendered language, conjugations, and so on. But overall, able to be fully understood by native speakers.

Theoretical educational frameworks don't replace the day-to-day struggle of trying to get shit done. (Doing this is, of course, extremely uncomfortable, and people will avoid it at all costs.)

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2. econ ◴[15 Dec 25 19:49 UTC] No.46279498[source]▶
Go there, learn to talk then take classes there. You might not be able to speak better than the natives you can learn to grammar harder.
3. carabiner ◴[15 Dec 25 20:17 UTC] No.46279957[source]▶
It's so strange to hear you and GP talking as if no one has ever learned a foreign language without moving to another country. The US military has been teaching translators for decades at the Defense Language Institute in California, and people learn languages to conversational fluency in university, albeit inefficiently. Duolingo is a game meant to be fun and collect subscription fees, not designed to teach any useful skill.
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4. dvt ◴[15 Dec 25 20:27 UTC] No.46280103[source]▶
> It's so strange to hear you and GP talking as if no one has ever learned a foreign language without moving to another country.

I speak three languages fluently (two prior to moving to said country; English, for example, is not my native tongue), so that's a weird assumption to make. With that said, I still think it's the most efficient way to learn a language, especially given how almost everyone's a nomad (especially in tech) these days.

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5. Uehreka ◴[15 Dec 25 21:38 UTC] No.46281089[source]▶
(GP here) There’s a big difference between techniques that could be feasible for an app (presumably used by people who want to study one hour or less per day) and techniques you can use with people who are dedicating their entire professional workday to language learning for weeks/months on end.

I guess my original comment could’ve been more specific, but I figured the context was implied.

6. BoiledCabbage ◴[15 Dec 25 21:40 UTC] No.46281107{3}[source]▶
I think the point is people are well aware that living in a country that speaks the language is a great way to learn a language.

The point was what's the best way to learn a language other than by having an entire country surrounding you dedicated to that language? Many / most people can't pick up their life for a year to learn a language. People have work, people have families, people have local commitments.

7. D-Coder ◴[16 Dec 25 05:20 UTC] No.46285067[source]▶
I've managed to learn Esperanto fluently without ever moving to... er... um.