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129 points mpweiher | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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retrac ◴[] No.46248101[source]
Here in Ontario, residentially we pay about 0.09 USD per kWh at night and 0.18 USD with demand peak pricing on weekday afternoons. Or if you have flat rate it's about 0.13 USD per kWh. This is considered very expensive by Canadian standards and it's due to our nuclear power program where about 55% of electricity is from nuclear, the rest from a mix of wind/hydro/solar/biofuel and gas. The increased price during the day is due to the need to burn a bit of gas at peak demand. The grid is otherwise nearly carbon neutral, and the long-term plan is to phase out the gas with a mix of wind, nuclear and pumped storage.

We pay less in practice than the rates given above for power, because the government also subsidizes it. But even without that I understand such rates would be relatively cheap in most European countries.

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ViewTrick1002 ◴[] No.46249068[source]
Existing nuclear power is something to keep around as long as it is safe and needed.

The problem is that new built western nuclear power requires ~18 cents/kWh (Vogtle, FV3, HPC etc.) when running at 100% 24/7 all year around, excluding backup, transmission costs and taxes.

Now try sell that electricity to a home owner with solar PV and maybe a battery and you will get laughed out of the room almost the entire year. A firming new built nuclear plant with ruinously high CAPEX and acceptable OPEX is economic lunacy.

This does not even take into account that new built nuclear power requires ~15-20 years from political decision to working plants.

As soon as new built nuclear power’s costs and timelines are confronted with reality it just does not work out.

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0x457 ◴[] No.46249311[source]
> Now try sell that electricity to a home owner with solar PV and maybe a battery and you will get laughed out of the room.

In EU, the split between flats (apartments) and houses is roughly 50/50, depending on how densely populated the country is. In the US, it about 1/3 in apartments. Canada is roughly 50/50, with a slight detached-house bias.

Not that it doesn't mean houseowner vs renter. Landlords have next to zero incentive to install solar PV because renters pay for electricity. In the US about 7% of homes have solar, I don't know about EU and Canada.

Solar can't provide baseline and even in sunny SoCal, you will go back to the grid often enough that being off-the-grid isn't reasonable for the typical household.

Anyway, we still need new nuclear power plants.

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1. ViewTrick1002 ◴[] No.46253173[source]
Have you heard of balcony solar? Stick some storage with it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balcony_solar_power

So you want a peaking nuclear plant for firming?

Vogtle costs 18 cents/kWh when running at 100% 24/7 all year around. A typical gas peaker runs at 15-25% of the time.

Running a peaking Vogtle now costs somewhere like 60-90 cents/kWh.

As soon as new built nuclear power with ruinously expensive CAPEX and acceptable OPEX hits the raw physical incentive systems of the our energy system it just becomes stupid.

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2. 0x457 ◴[] No.46278724[source]
> Have you heard of balcony solar? Stick some storage with it?

Sure, let me throw away everything I grow on my balcony so I can get some storage and panels. Still not going to work for me because my balcony is west facing. I have a bunch of solar-powered devices on my balcony, and metrics tell me realistically I get 2 hours of sunlight that matters a day.

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3. ViewTrick1002 ◴[] No.46281201[source]
Are you growing things on the outside of your balcony railing? [1]

West facing is perfect, means you get to take advantage of everyone else producing cheap power during the day and optimize your own delivery for when you are home in the late afternoon/evening.

I find it curious that the entire thought of balcony solar seems to upset you?

[1]: https://solarmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/shutterst...