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    432 points nobody9999 | 13 comments | | HN request time: 1.201s | source | bottom
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    Someone ◴[] No.46246157[source]
    > Speaking to reporters Thursday night, though, Epic founder and CEO Tim Sweeney said he believes those should be “super super minor fees,” on the order of “tens or hundreds of dollars” every time an iOS app update goes through Apple for review. That should be more than enough to compensate the employees reviewing the apps to make sure outside payment links are not scams

    I would think making sure outside payment links aren’t scams will be more expensive than that because checking that once isn’t sufficient. Scammers will update the target of such links, so you can’t just check this at app submission time. You also will have to check from around the world, from different IP address ranges, outside California business hours, etc, because scammer are smart enough to use such info to decide whether to show their scammy page.

    Also, even if it becomes ‘only’ hundreds of dollars, I guess only large companies will be able to afford providing an option for outside payments.

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    GeekyBear ◴[] No.46247273[source]
    > CEO Tim Sweeney said he believes those should be “super super minor fees”

    He seems to be ignoring the part of the ruling finding that Apple is entitled to "some compensation" for the use of its intellectual property.

    > The appeals court recommends that the district court calculate a commission that is based on the costs that are necessary for its coordination of external links for linked-out purchases, along with "some compensation" for the use of its intellectual property. Costs should not include commission for security and privacy.

    https://www.macrumors.com/2025/12/11/apple-app-store-fees-ex...

    Apple wanted 27% and Epic thinks it should be 0%. The lower court will have to pick a number in between the two.

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    an0malous ◴[] No.46247692[source]
    Maybe next they can decide what Epic’s 12% fee for their own marketplace should be
    replies(7): >>46247882 #>>46248315 #>>46248897 #>>46249166 #>>46249950 #>>46250410 #>>46257425 #
    jack_tripper ◴[] No.46247882[source]
    I get your point, but looking at it at a glance without any other context, 12% feels like a pretty reasonable amount IMHO.

    Like, if all major marketplaces only charge 12% from the get-go, we probably would have had much less fuss and lawsuits over this.

    This issue was always the disproportionate size of the fee, not the fact that they charge a fee.

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    1. ryandrake ◴[] No.46248520[source]
    I don't think a percentage makes any sense at all. Is it proportionately more expensive to host a $50 game than a $25 game? It's only a percentage Because They Can.
    replies(8): >>46248913 #>>46248948 #>>46249852 #>>46250300 #>>46250303 #>>46250443 #>>46250922 #>>46252170 #
    2. earthnail ◴[] No.46248913[source]
    On consoles, a review costs several grands. That’s the alternative.
    3. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.46248948[source]
    Well it's based on sales, not cost. In theory, a more popular game is a larger stress on servers, so charging them more makes sense.

    The scaling also helps so that some (probably most) games aren't losing money to be hosted kn a store. That would be catastrophic as at some point games would need to remove themselves to name financial sense.

    4. gruez ◴[] No.46249852[source]
    >It's only a percentage Because They Can.

    Do you object to other sorts of royalty-based compensation, like for Unity engine or Unreal engine?

    replies(1): >>46250164 #
    5. oblio ◴[] No.46250164[source]
    Yes. No to rent seeking.

    There should be caps overall and under the caps there should be the option to choose between lump sum and royalties.

    Nobody should be collecting unlimited revenue for a brilliant idea at the start and benefit from cheap or free scaling.

    This entire model is ripping apart the fabric of modern society.

    And yes, I known this is blasphemy on this website.

    replies(1): >>46253998 #
    6. mrandish ◴[] No.46250300[source]
    I agree. Charging a blanket percentage of gross revenue is an extremely inexact way to monetize what is a broad basket of services that were previously separate including: electronic software delivery, software security verification, marketplace, transaction processing, DRM, etc. Since 2009, first on Apple's app store and then Google's, these services have all been arbitrarily bundled together despite having vastly different one-time, fixed and variable costs. People are only used to it in this context where every marketplace has been controlled by a monopolist gatekeeper.

    Doing it this way makes no economic sense for either the seller or the buyer but it's coincidentally the absolute best way for a middleman to maximize the tax they can extract from a two-sided marketplace they control. In competitive markets, blanket taxing on total gross revenue generally only occurs when there's a single fundamental cost structure tied to that revenue, or the amounts being collected are so small it's de minimis. App stores are highly profitable, multi-billion dollar businesses.

    Perhaps the most perverse thing about this is that electronic transactions for purely digital goods which occur entirely on real-time connected digital platforms make it trivial to price each service for maximum efficiency. It's easy for the price a 2GB game with frequent updates pays for electronic delivery to reflect the cost they impose on the infrastructure while a 100k one-time purchase app can pay a vastly smaller amount. And that's exactly the way the competitive marketplaces evolve - from moving shipping containers around the planet to residential propane delivery.

    7. TylerE ◴[] No.46250303[source]
    It’s proportionally more expensive to run a credit card charge for twice the amount, yes.
    8. ◴[] No.46250443[source]
    9. dfex ◴[] No.46250922[source]
    I'm by no means defending the percentage they take, but I would suggest that it's a percentage because it's simple:

    Pick 3 imaginary games for sale priced at $1, $10 and $100. Any one of those games could be a million download a month success, and any one of them could be a complete dud.

    What flat rate would you suggest to:

    * Pay the developer for their work (ongoing per sale)

    * Review each game and ensure it meets store guidelines (once per update)

    * Host said game regardless of how popular it is (ongoing)

    * Process transactions for the game (ongoing)

    The alternative would be pricing based on revenue tiers (similar to what Unreal Engine does now), which aren't known in advance and don't take global variance into account (USD$200 in Eastern Europe might be a month's salary).

    Percentage is just simpler. It also means that they'd be taking a loss on every free app or in the case of Free-to-Download In-App purchase apps - until users start transacting.

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    10. lostlogin ◴[] No.46252170[source]
    This.

    If something gets super popular, it presumable costs Epic more. But does 100 sales cost 100x more than 1 sale? That seems unlikely.

    11. jack_tripper ◴[] No.46253998{3}[source]
    Why isn't this applied to income taxes first? Does the government deserve a percentage with no cap of whatever you make? Your government services don't get better for you the more you pay.
    replies(1): >>46258396 #
    12. oblio ◴[] No.46258396{4}[source]
    That is the hill you want to die on? The fact that at income levels greatly above the median income, taxes aren't capped?

    You should look at it the other way, where ANY income or income equivalent, of any kind, should be taxed like income.

    So when Bezos spends $5bn per year, that means he made $5bn per year (at least), so his tax statement should show him paying $2bn or whatever the top tax rate would imply.

    13. pabs3 ◴[] No.46268559[source]
    Personally I would rather transparent pricing. For each service the store offers, add a cost of appropriate type and value for that.