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Berlin Approves New Expansion of Police Surveillance Powers

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157 points robtherobber | 3 comments | 12 Dec 25 15:29 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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LightBug1 ◴[12 Dec 25 15:58 UTC] No.46245340[source]▶
Spit balling now ... I just feel like the years have rolled on by so quickly now, that we've aged out of all of the lessons we had to learn before. And now we're going to have to learn them all over again.
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mothballed ◴[12 Dec 25 16:20 UTC] No.46245594[source]▶
Classical liberalism is a rare blip of an exception in the history of civilization. As Milton Friedman says, and I paraphrase, it's quite remarkable it happened in the first place, but there's no real guarantee those conditions might ever arise again and no real expectation that it's realistic to think it will be recreated again in any particular desired timespan.
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mmooss ◴[12 Dec 25 17:21 UTC] No.46246240[source]▶
So is most technology, widespread literacy, health, freedom, etc. In fact, everything since we were nomadic hunter-gatherers is a blip - should we go back to that? The argument makes no sense; what force is compelling us to go back to hunting and gathering? It's absurd to raise this argument for inevitability, rather than do something about it - which has worked overwhelmingly for generations.
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mothballed ◴[12 Dec 25 17:25 UTC] No.46246304[source]▶
I'm not arguing you shouldn't do something about it. I'm a bit of a dreamer myself; I've basically carved out a life in a super rural area with almost no government -- but at the same time I like to be aware of the thoughts of great philosophers like Friedman and the history of this sort of liberalism and use it to my advantage. Knowing what I've stated has allowed me to deal with a world where I can't expect things to get better, even if I hope they will.

My personal take is you can use Friedman's thoughts to your advantage. Be prepared that everything will get much worse. And then maybe you can organize your life to minimize your interaction with the state in case your efforts don't help.

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mmooss ◴[12 Dec 25 17:51 UTC] No.46246604[source]▶
> dreamer

The idea that these are dreams is just part of the anti-democratic, anti-freedom rhetoric. You might not mean it that way, but look how it's been absorbed widely.

These are concrete realities that have swept across every corner of the world, and brought, by orders of magnitude, the greatest expansions of human freedom and prosperity ever. All in reality, not a dream.

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1. mothballed ◴[12 Dec 25 20:07 UTC] No.46248224[source]▶
This is what I come to HN for. To be called a peddler of anti-freedom rhetoric for dreaming of freedom, as a reply to single word quote. Because, you know, you're not allowed to dream if those dreams have at some point been "reality."
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2. mmooss ◴[12 Dec 25 20:32 UTC] No.46248507[source]▶
They are reality, not at some point but right now and for generations (depending on where you live).

I'm not talking about you, but the rhetoric, the ideas. But another part of the rhetoric is to shift the conversation to being a victim, and away from the merits of the ideas so one doesn't have to talk about them. Heck, looking back, I even took trouble to say it wasn't about you.

If you want to insist you embrace those idea, that's your problem. Or you could be an independent thinker who examines ideas on their merits. That would be the core of HN.

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3. mothballed ◴[14 Dec 25 16:12 UTC] No.46264091[source]▶
>I'm not talking about you, but the rhetoric, the ideas. But another part of the rhetoric is to shift the conversation to being a victim, and away from the merits of the ideas so one doesn't have to talk about them. Heck, looking back, I even took trouble to say it wasn't about you.

A survey of the 'rhetoric' (which you've somehow shifted to even though it's quite obvious you are personifying the rhetoric to reflect the person) of Friedman's life and the people espousing his 'rhetoric' finds your accusation to be blatantly and utterly false. Nothing about Friedman's 'rhetoric' was focused around shifting away from the merits of the ideas. I recommend watching "Free to Choose" series where you will learn almost none of the 'rhetoric' is focused around 'victimhood' and almost entirely around how to deal with the circumstances he's recognized.

This 'victim' peddling of your 'rhetoric' assessment is purely aimed at assassinating Friedman's assessment with a thought terminating dismissal as appeal to victimhood, not grounded in truth nor is it even aimed at understanding what was said.