Epic celebrates "the end of the Apple Tax" after court win in iOS payments case

While having Epic Store, Fortnite "mini store", and being perfectly fine with Nintendo, Sony and XBox.

Why do you think Epic is okay with Nintendo, Sony, and XBox?

Epic store has the lowest royalties by a hefty margin

Because the three of them are all making their store business decisions outside of CA such that it's far harder to have California law applied to them?

Epic also sued both Google and Apple in Australia, which is notably outside of CA.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/australia-court-rul...

I think the simpler answer is that Epic isn’t upset with the arrangement they have with Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony. They’ve done a better job cultivating a relationship with Epic than Apple has who seems to have only contempt for every other developer.

https://direct.playstation.com/en-gb/buy-consoles/playstatio...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ubcwin-Switch-Fortnite-Wildcat-Bund...

Because Epic is doing something much closer to those companies and restraints on what they can do would likely affect Epic as well.

Well yeah! A Nintendo switch or PlayStation is technically similar to an iPhone. But you can’t make the same monopolistic dealing argument there as you can on phones.

Why? Because a console is bought as a gaming device. And because you can reasonably have multiple consoles and there’s healthy competition between them.

In comparison, people buy a phone to have a phone. Then the App Store lock-in is tacked on the side. iPhone and Android compete on who has the best cameras. But once you’ve bought your phone, you’re trapped in the manufacturer’s App Store, who can charge monopolistic pricing. And normal people don’t buy multiple phones for different app stores.

The App Store monopoly is like if your electricity company somehow made it so you could only buy an Xbox. Games on steam and PlayStation aren’t compatible with the electricity in your house. And your friend down the street could only use a PlayStation. Not for any technical reason, but simply because locking you in to a single console manufacturer means they can make you pay way more for games. And you’ll pay it, because you don’t have a choice and can’t shop around.

The problem comes about because phones and app stores are glued together. They use a captive market created by one part of the business to trap consumers and developers elsewhere. If Google and Apple had to compete on app stores - like how Nintendo, PlayStation and Microsoft have to compete - then there’s no way Apple could get away with charging their extortionate 28% for App Store sales. If chrome charged a 28% commission on all purchases I made through the browser, everyone would switch to Firefox. Apps on my phone should be more like that.

I bought a console as a gaming device, but now my family mostly use it for YouTube and other streaming video. Similarly, relatively little of my phone time is used on phone calls. I think the distinction is mostly just locked in by history.

You also NEED a modern phone to function in modern society.

Because if console makers can not "control" the platform there will probably not be future consoles which are a big part of Epic's sales.

Mainly because of 2-factor authentication. If my phone breaks, I can't work.

If you wanted a dedicated streaming device, the competition is much cheaper.

But sure, nothing on a technical lecdl stops you from using a console as a general computer. It's just that that's not what the overwhelming use is as of now. Use cases play a large factor in rulings like this.

Because they directly negotiate deals with those companies that other smaller players can’t negotiate. The App Store is largely a “these are the rules for everyone” minus a few small exceptions.

Yeah, console hardware already run on thin margins and it feels like one of the big manufacturers are already on their way out. I don't think extra regulation benefits anyone. Not the devs, not the consumers.

Meanwhile, Apple and Google sure aren't going to call it quits just because they take 10, 20% less.

All these mental gymnastics to wring consoles out of the arguments against phones.. seriously what the fuck

Consoles run more "commodity hardware" than phones, like CPUs and GPUs and standard ports etc.

You're seriously arguing that Sony and Microsoft need or deserve special treatment? That's patently insane. The Government shouldn't be in the business of assessing the minutia of competing business models. Whatever you think is right for Apple, it's good enough for absolutely everyone.

Because they are the underdog on PC stores.

I'm mostly saying

1. No one cares about making an app store for the Ps5 when in 10 years they'll need to port it to the PS6

2. Consoles are already stagnating and it won't take much to also push Sony out. So basically we'd reduce competition back down to Nintendo to enable a feature no one cares about.

But sure. If you want to look at it in that lens: I want apple and Google to get "special punishments" because they've long proven to be a monopoly and practice anti-competitive behaviors. We can deal with other monopolies as we go along.

No, the consoles should be open, too.

The size and impact on society of the Android/iOS platforms are way way way higher than that of Sony's and Nintendo's platforms. Nobody needs a console, but basically everybody needs a phone running Android or iOS.

Ah, so I can buy XBox games from the PlayStation store?

Naturally not, Microsoft has to pay the Sony tax to publish their games into the PlayStation.

There are more mobile devices than people, since not everyone has a phone, naturally there are enough people with multiple phones.

Finally, people do browse the Internet, watch TV, and even have a general app store in XBox's case.

Yes, basically everybody needs a phone running Android or iOS. But they don’t need Fortnite on their phone.

If the government wanted to proscribe store rates for productivity apps only, I’d be more receptive. But it’s ridiculous for the government to proscribe rates for game sales, especially if they aren’t doing the same for all game stores.

You don't need a phone for most 2-factor methods. Also, you don't need iOS to receive a text message. It's very rare that I have to grab my phone for MFA.

> Consoles run more "commodity hardware" than phones, like CPUs and GPUs and standard ports etc.

Not really. They share CPU/GPU architecture but there are significant differences vs. what you can buy for a PC. For example, the latest PlayStation and Xbox use unified GDDR memory and commodity CPUs all use (LP)DDR.

However, you can buy systems that use the same (or similar) chips as phones these days. Snapdragon, Apple Silicon, SBCs?

My point is the argument against apples monopolistic practices isn’t a technical argument. It’s a legal / social one.

For what it’s worth, I agree with the argument that if I buy a computer it should let me run arbitrary code. But there’s no laws against that. There are laws about monopolies. I see that as a much stronger way to attack Apple over their behaviour here.

Sure; I’d love it if they were. But there’s another, legally much stronger reason to hate on Apple for their locked down App Store that has nothing to do with engineering.

Have they sued Nintendo, Sony or XBox yet?

There are 2 major phone ecosystems (Android manufacturers count as Android)

There are 3 console ecosystems.

Such difference. wow

Well, its not just "games vs phones". The question is whether or not the company's actions unfairly stifle competition. Nintendo / sony / etc would argue there's lots of competition, because you can just buy their competitor's product if you think they provide a better service. The argument is weaker for apple because its much harder for regular people to "just" swap their phone between ios / android over differences in the app stores.

Consoles compete on games. Phones compete on specs, and then they happen to have an app store on the side. Thats a difference.

Whoosh. You have completely missed my point.

None of your shit made sense.

If phones should be "opened" so should consoles, 30 years ago.

Whatever shit you say to excuse consoles from it those same arguments can apply to phones too.