←back to thread

43 points zdw | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.254s | source
Show context
avidiax ◴[] No.46239925[source]
I looked at adding USB-PD as a replacement for a 12V barrel-plug power supply in a recent project.

One big issue that came up (and killed the idea) is that if you are not battery powered, then putting a USB-C power input on your device that will only work if you can negotiate 12V+ with adequate current will just cause confusion. In my case, I don't think I could even boot to an error message on 5V.

Phones and the like don't have this issue, since they are still usable (charging slowly) on 5V, but can make use of higher voltages and currents to charge faster.

So I guess my question for the implementer is how booting & negotiating on 5V and then accepting higher voltage is likely to work in practice.

replies(6): >>46239969 #>>46240120 #>>46240152 #>>46240454 #>>46240526 #>>46243234 #
prezk ◴[] No.46240152[source]
You could run on 5V with a boost voltage converter to 12V. For extra credit, you could run the USB-PD off 5V, negotiate 12V and only then switch it to the load.
replies(1): >>46241071 #
avidiax ◴[] No.46241071[source]
If I need 12V/1A, then that suggests I need 5V/2.4A even with 100% efficiency. Without negotiating anything, a device shouldn't draw more than 5V/0.5A.

That's not to say that a boost converter doesn't have value, but it still leaves a gap where there could be confusion.

The confusion or complexity even multiplies if the device has additional USB-C for data transfer. In that case, you either have to mark one port as being the "power in" port, or you have to support power in and data out on all the ports, which gets complicated and expensive.

It would be a great move by the USB IF to think through this sort of thing more carefully. Right now the USB-c connector is so overloaded in terms of power, display modes, thunderbolt, speeds, etc. that it's very hard to predict whether two USB-c devices will connect and at what power or speed and with what capabilities. For power, it would be helpful to require supplies to have a standardized status LED so that e.g. green means that the supply is providing the highest power allowed by the device (not the supply), yellow means there's been a compromise, and red suggests an error condition.

replies(2): >>46241904 #>>46242549 #
1. wongarsu ◴[] No.46242549[source]
If you need 12V/1A, starting up and showing an error message at 12V/0.2A sounds quite feasible. Of course it depends on what's using up all your power. But at least microprocessors can usually be started at lower power levels (lower frequency) with a switch to high frequency once you've confirmed you have the power available. Display backlight can be dim until you have the power, and peripherals can be powered through a transistor so you can start delivering power after initial system checks.

But it's a bit more involved than just replacing a barrel jack with a USB-C port, and would require some design considerations early on