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    Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

    (riviantrackr.com)
    319 points doctoboggan | 17 comments | 11 Dec 25 18:17 UTC | HN request time: 1.129s | source | bottom
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    TulliusCicero ◴[11 Dec 25 18:50 UTC] No.46235375[source]▶
    Autonomy subscriptions are how things are going to go, I called this a long time ago. It makes too much sense in terms of continuous development and operations/support to not have a subscription -- and subscriptions will likely double as insurance at some point in the future (once the car is driving itself 100% of the time, and liability is always with the self driving stack anyway).

    Of course, people won't like this, I'm not exactly enthused either, but the alternative would be a corporation constantly providing -- for free -- updates and even support if your car gets into an accident or stuck. That doesn't really make sense from a business perspective.

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    bryanlarsen ◴[11 Dec 25 19:30 UTC] No.46236024[source]▶
    Agreed, it seems inevitable that autonomy and insurance are going to be bundled.

    1. Courts are finding Tesla partially liable for collisions, so they've already got some of the downsides of insurance (aka the payout) without the upside (the premium).

    2. Waymo data shows a significant injury reduction rate. If it's true and not manipulated data, it's natural for the car companies to want to capture some of this upside.

    3. It just seems like a much easier sell. I wouldn't pay $100/month for self-driving, but $150 a month for self-driving + insurance? That's more than I currently pay for insurance, but not a lot more. And I've got relatively cheap insurance: charging $250/month for insurance + self-driving will be cheaper than what some people pay for just insurance alone.

    I don't think we need to hit 100% self-driving for the bundled insurance to be viable. 90% self-driving should still have a substantially lower accident rate if the Waymo data is accurate and extends.

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    1. apercu ◴[11 Dec 25 19:36 UTC] No.46236098[source]▶
    Curious where you live? The only place I ever paid insurance premiums that high (and not quite that high) was in Ontario. I pay $70.
    replies(4): >>46236173 #>>46236698 #>>46237078 #>>46242522 #
    2. bryanlarsen ◴[11 Dec 25 19:43 UTC] No.46236173[source]▶
    The average car insurance premium in the US is over $2000/year, and over $2500/year for full coverage. I imagine that has an outlier effect and the median is lower, but I'd be surprised if the median was under $100/month. I'm paying just under $1000/year (and yes, in Ontario).
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    3. ics ◴[11 Dec 25 20:28 UTC] No.46236698[source]▶
    In NYC with clean 15+ year driving record my premium is $270 a month after discounts with USAA. Geico, Allstate, Progressive all quote me $400/mo minimum. Have driven everything from old beaters to brand new economy cars with little difference. Friends who also drive are paying around $350/mo on average.
    replies(4): >>46237434 #>>46238081 #>>46238536 #>>46238547 #
    4. ◴[11 Dec 25 20:58 UTC] No.46237057[source]▶
    5. lotsofpulp ◴[11 Dec 25 21:00 UTC] No.46237078[source]▶
    I always chuckle when discussions start comparing insurance premiums without defining the insurance itself.

    Might as well compare the prices of apples and oranges and vacuums and space stations.

    These comments could be quoting liability only insurance or comprehensive/collision for a kia or comprehensive/collision with bodily injury for a rivian R1S. The insured amount would differ by hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    For reference, I have only ever paid for maximum liability only insurance including uninsured/underinsured coverage ($500k/$250k), but not bodily injury, and my premium for 10k miles per year is less than $50 per month. Used to be less than $40 per month before 2022.

    replies(1): >>46237811 #
    6. cyberax ◴[11 Dec 25 21:25 UTC] No.46237373[source]▶
    The liability-only insurance is around $70 a month.
    replies(2): >>46238099 #>>46239243 #
    7. mcny ◴[11 Dec 25 21:30 UTC] No.46237434[source]▶
    > In NYC with clean 15+ year driving record my premium is $270 a month after discounts with USAA. Geico, Allstate, Progressive all quote me $400/mo minimum. Have driven everything from old beaters to brand new economy cars with little difference. Friends who also drive are paying around $350/mo on average.

    You're taking about full coverage, right?

    replies(1): >>46238492 #
    8. maxerickson ◴[11 Dec 25 22:00 UTC] No.46237811[source]▶
    Why would you forego bodily injury liability coverage? Most states require it, and it makes sense if you have even modest assets.

    The medical portion of my insurance that covers me (unlimited PIP) is like $17 a month, I can't see driving much and not spending that, even with relatively limited expectations for how much easier it might make things.

    replies(1): >>46237919 #
    9. lotsofpulp ◴[11 Dec 25 22:08 UTC] No.46237919{3}[source]▶
    Sorry, I meant I forego Personal Injury Protection, not Bodily Injury. I purchase the maximum amount of bodily injury (I forget if it’s $250k or $500k, but it’s up there).
    10. devmor ◴[11 Dec 25 22:22 UTC] No.46238081[source]▶
    Similar here. In Atlanta, have never had an at-fault accident in my life. I pay just under $400/mo for full coverage on my 2019 coupe and my wife's 2015 crossover.
    11. devmor ◴[11 Dec 25 22:23 UTC] No.46238099{3}[source]▶
    You must own your vehicle in its entirety to be able to downgrade to liability-only. If you are still making payments on your car (which most people are), your lender requires that you maintain full coverage.
    12. ics ◴[11 Dec 25 22:55 UTC] No.46238492{3}[source]▶
    Yes but when I tried to switch to liability only it was $20 cheaper. What I pay seems to be the floor, it’s definitely the lowest of anyone I know so far who isn’t claiming to live outside of NYC. Meanwhile my motorcycle insurance, liability only, for an older sport bike was only $400/year with Progressive.
    13. nixass ◴[11 Dec 25 23:00 UTC] No.46238536[source]▶
    > In NYC with clean 15+ year driving record my premium is $270 a month

    This is terrible. In Germany (major city) I pay 166 Eur a month for two cars, one normal (premium brand) family car and second being V8 coupe. I make about 25000km a year in total and have 6 years no claims. No accidents in my driving history (over 15 years). Price is for full coverage with low excess.

    replies(1): >>46240901 #
    14. nightski ◴[11 Dec 25 23:01 UTC] No.46238547[source]▶
    Wow that is crazy, also in the US my wife & I pay about $30/each a month.
    15. seanmcdirmid ◴[12 Dec 25 00:11 UTC] No.46239243{3}[source]▶
    It depends where you live and how much coverage you get. The real kicker these day is uninsured motorist coverage, because so many people are driving without insurance and they are much more likely to get into accidents.
    16. neutronicus ◴[12 Dec 25 04:34 UTC] No.46240901{3}[source]▶
    This price is probably driven by higher prevalence of uninsured motorists
    17. jjav ◴[12 Dec 25 09:50 UTC] No.46242522[source]▶
    Sounds like insurance in Canada is very cheap. Here in California we pay about $400/month. This is for a couple with no accidents in 30 years, in the sweet spot of old enough to have plenty of driving record with zero accidents but not too old to have any age-based penalties, so that's about as cheap as it gets.

    Apparently when our child reaches driving age we should expect to be paying about $1000/month for insurace. We'll see when the time comes.