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413 points martinald | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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tangotaylor ◴[] No.46204312[source]
> Engineers need to really lean in to the change in my opinion.

I tried leaning in. I really tried. I'm not a web developer or game developer (more robotics, embedded systems). I tried vibe coding web apps and games. They were pretty boring. I got frustrated that I couldn't change little things. I remember getting frustrated that my game character kept getting stuck on imaginary walls and kept asking Cursor to fix it and it just made more and more of a mess. I remember making a simple front-end + backend with a database app to analyze thousands of pull request comments and it got massively slow and I didn't know why. Cursor wasn't very helpful in fixing it. I felt dumber after the whole process.

The next time I made a web app I just taught myself Flask and some basic JS and I found myself moving way more quickly. Not in the initial development, but later on when I had to tweak things.

The AI helped me a ton with looking things up: documentation, error messages, etc. It's essentially a supercharged Google search and Stack Overflow replacement, but I did not find it useful letting it take the wheel.

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r_lee ◴[] No.46204550[source]
These posts like the one OP made is why I'm losing my mind.

Like, is there truly an agentic way to go 10x or is there some catch? At this point while I'm not thrilled about the idea of just "vibe coding" all the time, I'm fine with facing reality.

But I keep having the same experience as you, or rather leaning more on that supercharged Google/SO replacement

or just a "can you quickly make this boring func here that does xyz" "also add this" or for bash scripts etc.

And that's only when I've done most of the plumbing myself.

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adriand ◴[] No.46204766[source]
> Like, is there truly an agentic way to go 10x or is there some catch?

Yes. I think it’s practice. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I feel like I have reached a kind of mind meld state with my AI tooling, specifically Claude Code. I am not really consciously aware of having learned anything related to these processes, but I have been all in on this since ChatGPT, and I honestly think my brain has been rewired in a way that I don’t truly perceive except in terms of the rate of software production.

There was a period of several months a while ago where I felt exhausted all the time. I was getting a lot done, but there was something about the experience that was incredibly draining. Now I am past that and I have gone to this new plateau of ridiculous productivity, and a kind of addictive joy in the work. A marvellous pleasure at the orchestration of complex tasks and seeing the results play out. It’s pure magic.

Yes, I know this sounds ridiculous and over-the-top. But I haven’t had this much fun writing software since my 20s.

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r_lee ◴[] No.46204830[source]
That's really interesting.

May I ask what kinds of projects, stack and any kind of markdown magic you use?

And any specific workflow? And are there times when you have to step in manually?

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adriand ◴[] No.46204929[source]
Currently three main projects. Two are Rails back-ends and React front-ends, so they are all Ruby, Typescript, Tailwind, etc. The third is more recent, it's an audio plugin built using the JUCE framework, it is all C++. This is the one that has been blowing my mind the most because I am an expert web developer, but the last time I wrote a line of C++ was 20 years ago, and I have zero DSP or math skills. What blows my mind is that it works great, it's thread safe and performant.

In terms of workflow, I have a bunch of custom commands for tasks that I do frequently (e.g. "perform code review"), but I'm very much in the loop all the time. The whole "agent can code for hours at a time" thing is not something I personally believe. It depends on the task how involved I get, however. Sometimes I'm happy to just let it do work and then review afterwards. Other times, I will watch it code and interrupt it if I am unhappy with the direction. So yes, I am constantly stepping in manually. This is what I meant about "mind meld". The agent is not doing the work, I am not doing the work, WE are doing the work.

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timeon ◴[] No.46206605{5}[source]
Why do you need to use Tailwind if the code is generated? Can't there be something more efficient?
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Deegy ◴[] No.46206943{6}[source]
Extensive tailwind training data in the models. Sure there's something more efficient but it's just safer to let the model leverage what it was trained on.
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camdenreslink ◴[] No.46208432{7}[source]
Surely there is an order of magnitude more training data on plain CSS than tailwind, right?
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1. frikk ◴[] No.46210528{8}[source]
In my experience the LLMs work better with frameworks that have more rigid guidance. Something like Tailwind has a body of examples that work together, language to reason about the behavior needed, higher levels of abstraction (potentially), etc. This seems to be helpful.

The LLMs can certainly use raw CSS and it works well, the challenge is when you need consistent framing across many pages with mounting special cases, and the LLMs may make extrapolate small inconsistencies further. If you stick within a rigid framework, the inconsistencies should be less across a larger project (in theory, at least).