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323 points steerlabs | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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keiferski ◴[] No.46192154[source]
The thing that bothers me the most about LLMs is how they never seem to understand "the flow" of an actual conversation between humans. When I ask a person something, I expect them to give me a short reply which includes another question/asks for details/clarification. A conversation is thus an ongoing "dance" where the questioner and answerer gradually arrive to the same shared meaning.

LLMs don't do this. Instead, every question is immediately responded to with extreme confidence with a paragraph or more of text. I know you can minimize this by configuring the settings on your account, but to me it just highlights how it's not operating in a way remotely similar to the human-human one I mentioned above. I constantly find myself saying, "No, I meant [concept] in this way, not that way," and then getting annoyed at the robot because it's masquerading as a human.

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motoboi ◴[] No.46192754[source]
Reflect a moment over the fact that LLMs currently are just text generators.

Also that the conversational behavior we see it’s just examples of conversations that we have the model to mimic so when we say “System: you are a helpful assistant. User: let’s talk. Assistant:” it will complete the text in a way that mimics a conversation?.

Yeah, we improved over that using reinforcement learning to steer the text generation into paths that lead to problem solving and more “agentic” traces (“I need to open this file the user talked about to read it and then I should run bash grep over it to find the function the user cited”), but that’s just a clever way we found to let the model itself discover which text generation paths we like the most (or are more useful to us).

So to comment on your discomfort, we (humans) trained the model to spill out answers (there are thousand of human being right now writing nicely though and formatted answers to common questions so that we can train the models on that).

If we try to train the models to mimic long dances into shared meaning we will probably decrease their utility. And we won’t be able anyway to do that because then we would have to have customized text traces for each individual instead of question-answers pairs.

Downvoters: I simplified things a lot here, in name of understanding, so bear with me.

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MangoToupe ◴[] No.46192850[source]
> Reflect a moment over the fact that LLMs currently are just text generators.

You could say the same thing about humans.

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y0eswddl ◴[] No.46192928[source]
No, you actually can't.

Humans existed for 10s to 100s of thousands of years without text. or even words for that matter.

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MangoToupe ◴[] No.46194095[source]
I disagree: it is language that makes us human.
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andoando ◴[] No.46196805[source]
I disagree. You're still human if you're deaf and mute. Our intellectual processing powers, or of animals for that matter, has nothing to do with language.
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1. MangoToupe ◴[] No.46197236[source]
Being deaf and mute doesn't imply lack of language. But being unable to communicate absolutely strikes me as non-human.
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2. andoando ◴[] No.46197632[source]
Ok say you grew up alone in the woods, are you no longer human? The capability to learn language is no doubt unique, but language itself isn't the basis of intelligence.
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3. MangoToupe ◴[] No.46198221[source]
> Ok say you grew up alone in the woods, are you no longer human?

No. You are not. You are a hairless, bipedal ape.

> but language itself isn't the basis of intelligence.

Intelligence is an illusion based in language. Without language, intelligence is meaningless