←back to thread

Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

(www.bbc.com)
126 points petermcneeley | 3 comments | 06 Dec 25 19:19 UTC | HN request time: 0.227s | source
Show context
nicbou ◴[07 Dec 25 00:00 UTC] No.46177825[source]▶
To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service.

This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

replies(9): >>46177877 #>>46179622 #>>46179704 #>>46179962 #>>46180364 #>>46181424 #>>46181935 #>>46184358 #>>46184699 #
sunshine-o ◴[07 Dec 25 09:25 UTC] No.46180364[source]▶
Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups.

So it could be:

- the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD

- the people fighting the AfD in the street

- the second generation immigrants born there

- the very recent immigrants

- a mix of all

Because the alchemy of creating a working army and "esprit de corps" is much harder than in a corporation. You cannot just take a modern managerial approach to creating an army.

A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster but selecting on any group will end up in a civil war or coup.

replies(6): >>46180494 #>>46180752 #>>46180916 #>>46181722 #>>46182098 #>>46190194 #
nicbou ◴[07 Dec 25 10:41 UTC] No.46180752[source]▶
I'm in the "recent" immigrants group. I qualify for citizenship since a few years, but this Wehrpflicht nonsense is why I haven't sent my application yet.

I don't think that the social situation is as bad as you describe. I just think that people generally don't feel keen to put their life on the line for Germany.

replies(5): >>46180932 #>>46180959 #>>46181834 #>>46182038 #>>46182759 #
speedbird ◴[07 Dec 25 16:13 UTC] No.46182759[source]▶
I think if you want the benefits of living in a country then you should be willing to defend it. This attitude of entitlement without responsibility is exactly what gives migrants a bad name.
replies(2): >>46183212 #>>46193742 #
nicbou ◴[07 Dec 25 17:09 UTC] No.46183212[source]▶
I'm not getting any benefits. I was raised and educated elsewhere. I have no access to most social services. I have no kids. I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back. The services I've been getting were really nothing to write home about.

Ever since I moved here, the law made it very clear that this was a transactional relationship. That cuts both ways.

I uphold German values in my everyday behaviour. Killing for Germany was never on the table.

replies(2): >>46183570 #>>46183587 #
throwaway6734 ◴[07 Dec 25 17:56 UTC] No.46183587[source]▶
> I'm here to pay taxes and get the bare minimum back

I find this point of view to be profoundly sad and I hope it’s not shared by the majority of immigrants to germany

replies(1): >>46184597 #
jasonvorhe ◴[07 Dec 25 19:59 UTC] No.46184597[source]▶
Not just immigrants, most Germans pay taxes for very little in return while bureaucracy keeps growing.
replies(2): >>46193038 #>>46194532 #
1. arw0n ◴[08 Dec 25 15:05 UTC] No.46193038[source]▶
You are getting downvoted, but it is true that young people are getting a very rough deal, and a lot of the people in my circle are looking to emgirate. Friends from other countries and students (mostly know them through academia), are also not looking for long-term opportunities here anymore, which was different 15 years ago.

I would be far less annoyed with paying very high taxes and social contributions (around 50% of my income), if the services provided worked. But this just hasn't been the case for me. The healthcare system is close to breaking apart, and after moving to a new city 6 months ago I have been unable to find doctors willing to take me in. Childcare is constantly closing down due to staff shortages, buying a house is unrealistic unless both partners have good jobs or you inherit, and the jobs market is incredibly rigid and inflexible.

Every single one of these points are worse for young people then for older ones, and the only thing the government seems to get done is giving weapons training to young people and gifting pensioners 180b$/year extra.

replies(2): >>46194200 #>>46194601 #
2. jasonvorhe ◴[08 Dec 25 16:24 UTC] No.46194200[source]▶
I can only explain the downvotes by people who assume I'm somehow against immigrants since I used the term or who actually think that Germany is still worth living in. I have long given up on HN culture anyways.
3. seec ◴[08 Dec 25 16:54 UTC] No.46194601[source]▶
Yes, the problem is the boomers who keep getting richer for no good reason, under the premise that they are entitled to massive pensions because they have been promised that much by politicians.

Of course, logically it makes no sense, since the whole point of a socialized system is to adjust the wealth of everybody depending on current situation (economic output).

But it was obviously a lie and our social democracy are deeply flawed because they allow anyone to vote regardless of stakes.

Sending young people to military service/war make for a nice distraction because meanwhile they don't get to think about taking the stuff of the elders by force.