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225 points todsacerdoti | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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yen223 ◴[] No.46184611[source]
The unique thing about estimates in software engineering is that if you do it right, projects should be impossible to estimate!

Tasks that are easiest to estimate are tasks that are predictable, and repetitive. If I ask you how long it'll take to add a new database field, and you've added a new database field 100s of times in the past and each time they take 1 day, your estimate for it is going to be very spot-on.

But in the software world, predictable and repetitive tasks are also the kinds of tasks that are most easily automated, which means the time it takes to perform those tasks should asymptotically approach 0.

But if the predictable tasks take 0 time, how long a project takes will be dominated by the novel, unpredictable parts.

That's why software estimates are very hard to do.

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seviu ◴[] No.46184700[source]
I am in a project where we have to give estimates in hours and days.

Needless to say we always underestimate. Or overestimate. Best case we use the underestimated task as buffer for the more complex ones.

And it has been years.

Giving estimations based on complexity would at least give a clear picture.

I honestly don’t know what the PO and TL gains with this absurd obscenity.

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121789 ◴[] No.46184742[source]
Hours is insane. But ultimately time is money and opportunity cost. Software engineering can’t be the only engineering where you ask the engineers how much something will cost or how much time it will take and the answer is “it’s impossible to know”. Even very inaccurate estimates can be helpful for decision making if they are on the right order of magnitude
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yetihehe ◴[] No.46184821[source]
I think software is one of those VERY rare things, where inaccurate estimates can actually be inaccurate by "orders of magnitude". After 20 years in the field, I still managed to use 2 months of time on a task that I estimated as 10 days.
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bumby ◴[] No.46185166[source]
Something often overlooked in cost/schedule estimates is the nature of joint probability of actions slipping. Action A slips and causes action B to slip. I think software is tougher to estimate because the number of interfaces is often much higher, and sometimes more hidden, than in hardware.
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bdangubic ◴[] No.46185226[source]
as opposed to say building a house where framing can totally slip while we run electricity and build a roof floating in mid-air

software is only tougher to estimate if incompetent people (vast majority of the industry, like 4+ million) is doing the estimating :)

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1. yetihehe ◴[] No.46189438{6}[source]
My home construction slipped 6 months on 2 year build time. It happens in construction very often.

> software is only tougher to estimate if incompetent people (vast majority of the industry, like 4+ million) is doing the estimating :)

No, it is tough to estimate, but not only for incompetent people. And "incompetent" can be stretched to "don't know what he's doing", which is how I operate most of the time. I don't know what really needs to be done until it's done. Main part of my work is research on what actually needs to be done, then "just" implementing it. If I waited with estimating until I know what needs to be done, I would spend 3/4 time estimating and then 1/4 with clear understanding and good schedules (example description: I will be clicking keys for 5 hours).

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2. rkomorn ◴[] No.46189453[source]
> My home construction slipped 6 months on 2 year build time. It happens in construction very often.

Tangent, but I have at least 3 friends that would've (in retrospect) been nothing short of ecstatic if their home construction had "only" slipped 6 months on a 2 year timeline.