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The programmers who live in Flatland

(blog.redplanetlabs.com)
107 points winkywooster | 2 comments | 27 Nov 25 15:44 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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libraryofbabel ◴[07 Dec 25 16:34 UTC] No.46182942[source]▶
Or perhaps, just perhaps, the true higher-dimensional move is realizing that choice of programming language isn’t usually the critical factor in whether a project, system, or business succeeds or fails, and that obsessing over the One True Way is a trap.

It might surprise the author to learn that there are many people who:

1) Have tried lisp and clojure

2) Liked their elegance and expressiveness

3) Have read through SICP and done most of the exercises

4) Would still choose plain old boring easy-to-read always-second-best Python for 90% of use-cases (and probably Rust for the last 10%) when building a real business in the real world.

The article could really benefit from some steel-manning. Remove the cute Flatland metaphor and it is effectively arguing that lisp/clojure haven’t been universally adopted because most programmers haven’t Seen The Light in some sort of epiphany of parentheses and macros. The truth is more nuanced.

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1. didibus ◴[08 Dec 25 04:16 UTC] No.46188232[source]▶
I think the missing piece is that "more expressive" languages do not automatically create more value at the team or company level.

Languages like Lisp, Clojure, Rust, Haskell, Erlang give strong engineers room to build powerful abstractions, but they also increase cognitive load and ramp up cost. In most orgs with churn and constant hiring, you do not get to enjoy "we built great abstractions and now we are fast". You live in "someone new is trying to understand what the last person did".

That is why hand holding and guard rails win. Not because Python or similar are technically superior, but because they support a commoditised, fungible workforce. Even if a wizard in a high dimension language is 2x more productive, that does not necessarily beat a slightly larger team in a mainstream language once you factor in turnover and ramp up. Companies mostly optimise for business impact, predictable delivery, and ease of staffing, not for maximising the ceiling of the top few programmers.

That said, at the individual level, as a programmer, you definitely can benefit from learning and mastering those added dimensions, even if you are to never use them again professionally, they expand your mindset.

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2. zozbot234 ◴[08 Dec 25 12:34 UTC] No.46191515[source]▶
> Languages like Lisp, Clojure, Rust, Haskell, Erlang give strong engineers room to build powerful abstractions ... You live in "someone new is trying to understand what the last person did".

In a language like C++, Rust or even Haskell, those "powerful abstractions" are mostly about building libraries, not application code. You still benefit from powerful libraries that were built as part of the ecosystem, even while keeping your own application code simple and intuitive to ease onboarding of new coders. Part of the "powerful abstractions" is to enable a "hand-holding and guard rails" approach for application code that's going to interface with that full-featured library.