←back to thread

Google Titans architecture, helping AI have long-term memory

(research.google)
584 points Alifatisk | 3 comments | 07 Dec 25 12:23 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
okdood64 ◴[07 Dec 25 14:05 UTC] No.46181759[source]▶
From the blog:

https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.00663

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2504.13173

Is there any other company that's openly publishing their research on AI at this level? Google should get a lot of credit for this.

replies(12): >>46181829 #>>46182057 #>>46182168 #>>46182358 #>>46182633 #>>46183087 #>>46183462 #>>46183546 #>>46183827 #>>46184875 #>>46186114 #>>46189989 #
Palmik ◴[07 Dec 25 20:33 UTC] No.46184875[source]▶
DeepSeek and other Chinese companies. Not only do they publish research, they also put their resources where their mouth (research) is. They actually use it and prove it through their open models.

Most research coming out of big US labs is counter indicative of practical performance. If it worked (too) well in practice, it wouldn't have been published.

Some examples from DeepSeek:

https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.04434

https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.11089

replies(1): >>46186643 #
abbycurtis33[dead post] ◴[07 Dec 25 23:51 UTC] No.46186643[source]▶
[flagged]
CGMthrowaway[dead post] ◴[07 Dec 25 23:58 UTC] No.46186712[source]▶
[flagged]
elmomle ◴[08 Dec 25 00:41 UTC] No.46187015[source]▶
Your comment seems to imply "these views aren't valid" without any evidence for that claim. Of course the theft claim was a strong one to make without evidence too. So, to that point--it's pretty widely accepted as fact that DeepSeek was at its core a distillation of ChatGPT. The question is whether that counts as theft. As to evidence, to my knowledge it's a combination of circumstantial factors which add up to paint a pretty damning picture:

(1) Large-scale exfiltration of data from ChatGPT when DeepSeek was being developed, and which Microsoft linked to DeepSeek

(2) DeepSeek's claim of training a cutting-edge LLM using a fraction of the compute that is typically needed, without providing a plausible, reproducible method

(3) Early DeepSeek coming up with near-identical answers to ChatGPT--e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1idqi7p/deepseek_a...

replies(4): >>46187080 #>>46187116 #>>46188534 #>>46189289 #
grafmax ◴[08 Dec 25 00:52 UTC] No.46187080[source]▶
That’s an argument made about training the initial model. But the comment stated that DeepSeek stole its research from the US which is a much stronger allegation without any evidence to it.
replies(3): >>46187136 #>>46187365 #>>46187386 #
epsteingpt[dead post] ◴[08 Dec 25 01:42 UTC] No.46187365[source]▶
[flagged]
1. CGMthrowaway ◴[08 Dec 25 01:49 UTC] No.46187401[source]▶
Can you link the "documented cases and convictions" that are evidence DeepSeek was stolen from the US?
replies(1): >>46187903 #
2. epsteingpt ◴[08 Dec 25 03:16 UTC] No.46187903[source]▶
Yes, a cursory google search will show dozens of convictions at all sorts of sensitive technical labs, but I'll post them for HN: [1] Ji Wang convicted recently of stealing DARPA laser tech https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fiber-laser-expert-convicted-... [2] Leon Ding indicted for stealing AI tech - https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/chinese-national-res... [3] Pangang Companies ongoing and rejected appeals for stealing Titanium Dioxide production [https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/ca9/22...]

Here's an umbrella doc from the USTR, and the good stuff: China used foreign ownership restrictions, such as joint venture (JV) requirements and foreign equity limitations, and various administrative review and licensing processes, to require or pressure technology transfer from U.S. companies. 2. China’s regime of technology regulations forced U.S. companies seeking to license technologies to Chinese entities to do so on non-market-based terms that favor Chinese recipients. 3. China directed and unfairly facilitated the systematic investment in, and acquisition of, U.S. companies and assets by Chinese companies to obtain cutting-edge technologies and IP and generate the transfer of technology to Chinese companies. 4. China conducted and supported unauthorized intrusions into, and theft from, the computer networks of U.S. companies to access their IP, including trade secrets, and confidential business information.

As mentioned - no one has claimed that DeepSeek in its entirety was stolen from the U.S.

It is almost a certainty based on decades of historical precedent of systematic theft that techniques, research, and other IP was also systematically stolen for this critical technology.

Don't close your eyes when the evidence, both rigorously proven and common sense, is staring you in the face.

replies(1): >>46188089 #
3. throw10920 ◴[08 Dec 25 03:49 UTC] No.46188089[source]▶
Here's one about an ex-Apple employee (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-10/ex-apple-...) stealing secrets, another about a series of hacks targeting aerospace companies (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/10/feds-say-chinese...), Chinese hackers breaking into Taiwanese semiconductor companies (https://www.wired.com/story/chinese-hackers-taiwan-semicondu...), another one about aerospace IP theft (https://www.industryweek.com/the-economy/article/21118569/ho...), and finally here's one from the EU (not the US - https://www.ft.com/content/0d48a5dc-9362-11ea-899a-f62a20d54...) how China abuses IP more than any of their other trading partners.

...and of course the completely insane fact that China has been running on-the-ground operations in the US (and other countries) to discredit, harass, blackmail, and kidnap Chinese who are critical of the government (https://www.npr.org/2020/10/28/928684913/china-runs-illegal-... and https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/eight-individuals-ch...) - INCLUDING CITIZENS OF OTHER COUNTRIES (https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/detained-blogger-revealed-...).