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126 points petermcneeley | 1 comments | | HN request time: 2.608s | source
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nicbou ◴[] No.46177825[source]
To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service.

This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

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sunshine-o ◴[] No.46180364[source]
Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups.

So it could be:

- the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD

- the people fighting the AfD in the street

- the second generation immigrants born there

- the very recent immigrants

- a mix of all

Because the alchemy of creating a working army and "esprit de corps" is much harder than in a corporation. You cannot just take a modern managerial approach to creating an army.

A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster but selecting on any group will end up in a civil war or coup.

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jijijijij ◴[] No.46181722[source]
Lol, that's not an exhaustive characterization of "this generation". Most people are in neither group.

Also, the AfD folks would be rather fighting for Russia, the leftist activists will conscientiously object, and recent immigrants are not allowed to serve. Very weird to mention "second gen immigrants", as if ethnostate-ish racial tension is a wider issue in Germany and they are not normal citizens. I see no difference to children of Turkish migrants serving in the past. Do you realize Germany had mandatory military service before?

> A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster but selecting on any group will end up in a civil war or coup.

Obviously! Jeez...

Btw. historically, after WWII, one of the reasons to have mandatory military service for every man was specifically to get a diverse army, as a cross-section of society, instead of clusters of certain dispositions, so the Bundeswehr exactly won't become an ideological, political force. Conscientious objection is a legal right for every soldier, at any moment, because of it. The constitution also prevents any sort of "group selection". A homogenized army is much more dangerous to the democratic order, than a diverse one. People thought of this before...

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sunshine-o ◴[] No.46182999[source]
> Also, the AfD folks would be rather fighting for Russia

This is what I was suspecting a bit.

But how did they get there? didn't the people from the former German Democratic Republic (where AfD is very strong and a lot of recruits are) broke the wall to liberate themselves from Russia and the USSR?

What happened in the last decade that they would now swing back to Russia?

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1. flohofwoe ◴[] No.46183928[source]
> But how did they get there? didn't the people from the former German Democratic Republic

It's not that complicated really, the eastern parts of Germany are on average poorer, older and less educated than the western parts, well paid jobs are rare, unemployment is higher (although tbf I'm unfair here towards the old generation, since those are not the typical AfD voters - it's rather the young people who tend to vote on the extreme ends of the political spectrum). Most of the smart young people move to where the grass is greener, those who stay are often bitter and disillusioned.

Carve out a similar demographic slice in western Germany, and you'll get similar high support for the AfD.

...basically the same reason why MAGA is bigger in the rural areas of the US than in the big cities.