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126 points petermcneeley | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.201s | source
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nickdothutton ◴[] No.46182831[source]
Europe in general, most countries, are being shaken awake from a long slumber by a number of recent and current events.
replies(2): >>46182862 #>>46190217 #
consumer451 ◴[] No.46182862[source]
Agreed. This is a rational response to the USA's protective umbrella being discarded, and the end of NATO. Europe became far too complacent, and the change is going to be quite uncomfortable at the very least.

Again, this is a very rational response and I applaud the German government for being realistic.

replies(1): >>46183050 #
IAmGraydon ◴[] No.46183050[source]
You have a source for NATO ending, I’m sure?
replies(2): >>46183205 #>>46215009 #
1. consumer451 ◴[] No.46183205[source]
Trump being re-elected was the death knell, let's be honest. We are on our own here now. The next few years will make or break us.

Our only hope is European Federalization, at the very least militarily. I believe we can do it. We must. We have no other choice.

As far as evidence, "generally waves hands around." See the Trump/Putin surrender proposal. Also, see: https://www.france24.com/en/video/20251206-us-threatens-with...

Just that threat of weakness from the US side is the end of traditional NATO.

US forces were what kept us together militarily. We MUST find the new path quickly.

I post this with a tears dropping from my eyes, genuinely.

No matter who is reelected in the USA in the future, the US-led post-war rules based order is over. Something new must take its place. It best be Democracy. We took it for granted all this time. This could its last chance.

Here is some interesting reading:

> The West’s Last Chance

> How to Build a New Global Order Before It’s Too Late

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/wests-last-chan...

- Alexander Stubb, President of Finland

replies(2): >>46183663 #>>46192030 #
2. consumer451 ◴[] No.46183663[source]
I just realized how triggering that title must be for all the Muskovites.

Meanwhile, the richest boy in the world:

> The EU should be abolished and sovereignty returned to individual countries, so that governments can better represent their people

https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1997279325876367719

3. nickdothutton ◴[] No.46192030[source]
I don't want to be dismissive or trite, but good luck to any official who thinks the defence needs of (say) Portugal, align with the defence needs of (say) Poland. Could say the same along the N-S axis as on the E-W axis.
replies(1): >>46209649 #
4. IAmBroom ◴[] No.46209649[source]
The premise of NATO, which is something over 10 years old IIRC, is that if/when tanks start rolling across (say) Poland, (say) Portugal would be wise to take notice. And maybe proactively do a bit more than just notice.