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Perl's decline was cultural

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393 points todsacerdoti | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.844s | source
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stack_framer ◴[] No.46176720[source]
Should the Rust community take a lesson here, and maybe the Zig community to an extent?

To me it seems that some in the Rust community in particular, perhaps because they're just the most vocal, are tightly coupled to progressive, social activism.

I guess in general I just find myself wishing that political and social issues could be entirely left out of technical communities.

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valiant55 ◴[] No.46176799[source]
I'd love for politics to not infiltrate most aspects of life. Until everyone is able to, at least in part, persue life without being oppressed because of their immutable attributes, their belief or lack of belief system, who they choose to love and/or how they view themselves I think it's our civic duty to crusade for those causes.
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stack_framer ◴[] No.46177005[source]
> I think it's our civic duty to crusade for those causes

Why crusade using the resources of a technical community though? Surely it alienates the people who don't happen to align with the causes important to you.

There are myriad ways to perform your civic duty in your city. You could knock doors and encourage people to vote, for example. Why do it through a technical community?

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array_key_first ◴[] No.46177891[source]
There is zero way you don't alienate anyone. Ask women software engineers if they ever feel alienated. That's the reason why some communities like the python community do outreach for minorities in tech.

I'm a white man, and I have never felt "alienated" in so-called progressive spaces.

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1. stack_framer ◴[] No.46182090[source]
> outreach for minorities in tech

Why is there no outreach to other minorities in tech, like the Amish, for example? They are certainly more underrepresented than women in the python community.

Or how about male ballet dancers? Why isn't the python community allocating some of its resources to helping them feel seen and included?

I'm giving ridiculous examples because the whole premise is ridiculous. And my general question remains: Why devote the resources of a tech community toward one social issue/group or another? There are plenty of other outlets more suitable for doing our civic duty.

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2. array_key_first ◴[] No.46184602[source]
> Why is there no outreach to other minorities in tech, like the Amish, for example? They are certainly more underrepresented than women in the python community.

Well the amish wouldn't want the outreach, because they're amish.

> There are plenty of other outlets more suitable for doing our civic duty.

I kind of hate this mentality, because there's no logic or reasonableness behind it.

There's ALWAYS another place you can do something. Always. Where you draw the line is arbitrary. There's no rulebook anywhere saying we can't do this in tech. That's just your opinion, that you made up. We don't have to do that and, evidently, we don't.

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3. zahlman ◴[] No.46195268[source]
> There's ALWAYS another place you can do something. Always. Where you draw the line is arbitrary.

Yes, that's the point. If you're drawing a line that agentively impacts others, you are the one responsible for defending where it's drawn.

> There's no rulebook anywhere saying we can't do this in tech.

Nobody is telling you that you can't do these things (except where impermissible by law). They are telling you not to rope or pressure unwilling others into it.

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4. array_key_first ◴[] No.46196633{3}[source]
I think where we disagree is the "roping people in" thing.

If you're part of an organization, you're gonna be roped into their organization standards. Whether that be for behavior (no cursing on their forums), or for outreach, or whatever.

Joining the organization is optional, and if you feel, say, the python foundation doesn't align with your own beliefs, then just don't join. That's always been allowed.

As for working with people you might not want to, that's also just a part of organizations.