←back to thread

263 points josephcsible | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.586s | source
Show context
mr_windfrog ◴[] No.46178827[source]
What this incident really shows is the growing gap between how easy it is to create a convincing warning and how costly it is to verify what's actually happening. Hoaxes aren't new, but generative tools make fabrication almost free and massively increase the volume.

The rail operator didn't do anything wrong. After an earthquake and a realistic-looking image, the only responsible action is to treat it as potentially real and inspect the track.

This wasn't catastrophic, but it's a preview of a world where a single person can cheaply trigger high-cost responses. The systems we build will have to adapt, not by ignoring social media reports, but by developing faster, more resilient ways to distinguish signal from noise.

replies(9): >>46178848 #>>46178936 #>>46179699 #>>46180135 #>>46180154 #>>46180642 #>>46180686 #>>46181129 #>>46185243 #
belorn ◴[] No.46180642[source]
Given the number of cctv cameras that operate in the UK, and their continued growth, I am surprised that the rail operator did not have access to a direct view of the bridge. I am also a bit surprised that there isn't technology to detect rail damage, especially the power lines that runs over the track.

Where I live it is not uncommon for rail to have detection for people walking on the rail, and bridges to have extra protection against jumpers. I wouldn't be that surprised if the same system can be used to verify damage.

replies(5): >>46180679 #>>46181516 #>>46181549 #>>46182101 #>>46184118 #
1. Normal_gaussian ◴[] No.46181549[source]
> Given the number of cctv cameras that operate in the UK, and their continued growth,

CCTV cameras are mostly in private ownership, those in public ownership are owned by a mass of radically different bodies who will not share access without a minimum of police involvement. Oh and of course - we rarely point the cameras at the bridges (we have so many bridges).

> Where I live it is not uncommon for rail to have detection for people walking on the rail, and bridges to have extra protection against jumpers. I wouldn't be that surprised if the same system can be used to verify damage.

This bridge just carries trains. There is no path for walking on it. Additionally jumping would be very unusual on this kind of bridge; the big suspension bridges attract that behaviour.

You mentioned twice that you are surprised by things which are quite common in the UK. I don't know where you're from, but it's worth noting that the UK has long been used as a bogeyman by American media, and this has intensified recently. You should come and visit, the pound is not so strong at the moment so you'll get a great deal to see our country.

replies(1): >>46183979 #
2. belorn ◴[] No.46183979[source]
The saying/claims in the last 20 years or so is that London has the highest ratio of cameras to people in the world, through looking at what seems more correct statistics it is only the 12th most dense camera city in the world. how well that translate to the rest of the country is much less talked about.

Here in Sweden, people walking on the rails without permission is a fairly common problem, which cause almost 4k hours of accumulated delays per year. For people who often travel by train, the announcement of reduced speed because of the system has detected people on the tracks are one of the more common ones, only second to the catch-all announcement of "signal error", which simply mean the computer says stop for a reason that the driver don't know or don't want to say.

When it comes to suicide prevention on bridges, it is not just the big bridges. Suicide by train is a fairly talked methods in the news as a work hazard for train drivers, and the protection here is for small bridges that goes above the track. Similar issues exist with bridges over roads and highways. Those methods are to my read of the statistics more common than the movie version of a person jumping from a suspension bridge.

replies(1): >>46187663 #
3. Normal_gaussian ◴[] No.46187663[source]
People on tracks and suicide by train are, I suspect, way more common in London for us than elsewhere. I can't get solid figures though. But it seems to sit around 15k hrs of delays nationwide for people on tracks.

We had a big government inquest into suicide in 2018 which included asking national rail to justify it position and actions. Of the 30k rail bridges in the UK only the hotspots have any modern measures of suicide prevention; and the hotspots are mostly but not exclusively suspension bridges.

However, from your comment, I see that you might be meaning pedestrian bridges across tracks, which almost always have metal rails higher than an adult man here. Our older stone road bridges (which are very common) have thick and tall walls on the edge which serve a similar function if not as effectively.

However, I think to hark back to the original image and post - the bridge depicted is a train bridge going over a road. More like a viaduct tbh. Its highly unlikely that there is any normalised pedestrian access so it won't tank highly for assigning prevention and detection measures for either suicid, and its easily assessed from the busy public road so I doubt it makes the priority list for automated collapse detection.