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458 points turrini | 5 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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vzaliva ◴[] No.46177620[source]
common theme: tiled layout, terminals, minimum fancy decorations.
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ajross ◴[] No.46177886[source]
I think I see only one truly tiled layout. But yes, "terminals and editors" as the core developer workflow is extremely conserved over time. It dates from the mid 80's on Sun 2's and really hasn't changed much in four decades.

It's probably not worth arguing whether this is the "best" when compared with vscode+LSP+Claude or whatever happens to be en vogue in the moment.

But terminals and editors is sticky in a way that tells me it's probably close to optimal. Those of us in the cult aren't observed to leave the compound except in extremely rare circumstances. I'll be doing the same stuff on my death bed, likely.

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bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.46178245[source]
> But terminals and editors is sticky in a way that tells me it's probably close to optimal.

Optimal for those users, at any rate. IMO using a terminal editor is so painful compared to a decent GUI (Sublime or even VSCode) that I have a difficult time understanding why anyone would choose such a tool. I just try to repeat the mantra of "everyone likes different things" and stop trying to understand something where I likely never will get it.

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1. zahlman ◴[] No.46181253[source]
Terminal editors generally do support the mouse, and there are occasions where even a fairly skilled user of a good terminal editor will find it easier to click to set an insertion point than use commands to reach it. But having those key-command options greatly enhances the experience. You need to watch the screen while a skilled user edits text to get it. It's like magic.

I haven't picked up nearly as much as I'd like, but even basics (requiring zero config) are way beyond what I could easily do in any GUI editor I ever experienced. For example, in vim, if you are on a bracket or parenthesis (open or close) in edit mode, it is three keystrokes to delete the entire bracketed portion, precisely, regardless of size (even if the matching bracket is off screen). Finding the matching bracket with the mouse is often hell.

And it's not as hard to learn as you may expect, because those keystrokes are not magic codes; they're part of a consistent, thoughtfully designed command language. You choose a mode for selecting text (character based, with lowercase v), use "motions" to select the text in that mode (in this case, a single "go to the matching bracket" motion, which is the percent sign), and take an action with that selection (delete it, with d).

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2. Nextgrid ◴[] No.46181855[source]
I wonder if there's a worthwhile time-saving in aggregate? To me it seems like overall the bottleneck is always thinking what code to write/edit, not the actual edition. So I'm not convinced shaving a couple seconds here and there outweighs the benefit of a modern IDE or offsets the time spent ricing such a setup.
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3. ajross ◴[] No.46183129[source]
Seems like the opposite to me. IDE fashion changes like the wind. "Normal developers" are constantly starting over with new tools and new paradigms every time they start work on a new project. Gotta have the right vscode extensions to flash your firmware, IT only supports IntelliJ on the new job, ad infinitum. It's been this way for decades.

My .emacs file gets updated regularly, sure, but it's thirty years old, and my basic flow hasn't changed.

4. zahlman ◴[] No.46183907[source]
> To me it seems like overall the bottleneck is always thinking what code to write/edit

I feel the same way. But small advantages compound to at least some extent (see e.g. https://danluu.com/productivity-velocity/); and I find that noticing that it takes more time than I'd like to write/edit something, risks breaking my flow.

5. lambdaba ◴[] No.46183934[source]
It's not mainly about speed (although the ceiling is much higher), but about ergonomics, and, plainly, enjoyability. The other benefit of making your own environment is mastery and control; only you can decide when and how the environment changes.