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HTML as an Accessible Format for Papers (2023)

(info.arxiv.org)
262 points el3ctron | 19 comments | 06 Dec 25 14:59 UTC | HN request time: 0.518s | source | bottom
1. teddy-smith ◴[06 Dec 25 17:12 UTC] No.46174872[source]▶
It's extremely easy to convert HTML/CSS to a PDF with the print to PDF feature of the browser.

All papers should be in HTML/CSS or Tex then just simply converted to PDF.

Why are we even talking about this?

replies(6): >>46174925 #>>46174989 #>>46175090 #>>46175140 #>>46175487 #>>46176356 #
2. tefkah ◴[06 Dec 25 17:18 UTC] No.46174925[source]▶
What are you talking about? No one’s writing their paper in HTML.

The problem is having the submissions be in TeX and converting that to HTML, when the only output has been PDF for so long.

The problem isn’t converting HTML to PDF, it’s making available a giant portion of TeX/pdf only papers in HTML.

If you’re arguing that maybe TeX then shouldn’t be the source format for papers then I agree, but other than Typst (which also isn’t perfect about HTML output yet) there aren’t that many widely accepted/used authoring formats for physics/math papers, which is what ArXiV primarily hosts.

replies(1): >>46177635 #
3. nkrisc ◴[06 Dec 25 17:28 UTC] No.46174989[source]▶
So, uh, where do the HTML versions of the papers come from?
replies(1): >>46177651 #
4. benatkin ◴[06 Dec 25 17:39 UTC] No.46175090[source]▶
It's easy to convert PDF to HTML/CSS, with similar results.

Either way it gets shoehorned.

5. ekjhgkejhgk ◴[06 Dec 25 17:46 UTC] No.46175140[source]▶
LOL what. You're either trolling, or you've never written a paper in your life.
replies(1): >>46177647 #
6. carlosjobim ◴[06 Dec 25 18:33 UTC] No.46175487[source]▶
Except you can't have page breaks, three links in a row, anchor links.
replies(1): >>46177658 #
7. crazygringo ◴[06 Dec 25 20:28 UTC] No.46176356[source]▶
Have you ever written a paper for publication?

HTML doesn't support the necessary features. Citations in various formats, footnotes, references to automatically numbered figures and tables, I could go on and on.

HTML could certainly be extended to support those, but it hasn't been. That's why we're talking about this.

replies(1): >>46177632 #
8. teddy-smith ◴[06 Dec 25 23:36 UTC] No.46177632[source]▶
Come on are you serious? HTML/CSS is more powerful than TEX or PDF.

https://csszengarden.com/

replies(1): >>46178547 #
9. teddy-smith ◴[06 Dec 25 23:36 UTC] No.46177635[source]▶
This is what I'm talking about. HTML/CSS is more powerful than PDF or TEX.

https://csszengarden.com/

10. teddy-smith ◴[06 Dec 25 23:39 UTC] No.46177647[source]▶
It sounds like you might not understand the power of modern HTML/CSS.
11. teddy-smith ◴[06 Dec 25 23:39 UTC] No.46177651[source]▶
Ground truth.
replies(1): >>46184774 #
12. teddy-smith ◴[06 Dec 25 23:40 UTC] No.46177658[source]▶
@media print { .page, .page-break { break-after: page; } }
replies(1): >>46177997 #
13. carlosjobim ◴[07 Dec 25 00:21 UTC] No.46177997{3}[source]▶
It doesn't function in real use, it's just theoretical.
replies(1): >>46182904 #
14. crazygringo ◴[07 Dec 25 02:04 UTC] No.46178547{3}[source]▶
Did you fully read my comment? Please point me to where HTML/CSS provide the features I listed.

It doesn't really matter if HTML/CSS is more powerful at a hundred other layout things, if it doesn't provide the absolute necessary features for papers.

replies(1): >>46182894 #
15. teddy-smith ◴[07 Dec 25 16:28 UTC] No.46182894{4}[source]▶
Citations in various formats,

> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...

> https://codepen.io/tag/citation

footnotes

>https://codepen.io/SitePoint/pen/QbMgvY

references to automatically numbered figures and tables

> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/25869906/table-auto-numb...\

> https://codepen.io/MikeKelley/pen/GpXmEd

replies(1): >>46205254 #
16. teddy-smith ◴[07 Dec 25 16:30 UTC] No.46182904{4}[source]▶
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/P...

Literally part of Mozilla's docs.

replies(1): >>46184992 #
17. nkrisc ◴[07 Dec 25 20:21 UTC] No.46184774{3}[source]▶
What do you mean by that? That researchers should be authoring their papers in HTML?
18. carlosjobim ◴[07 Dec 25 20:46 UTC] No.46184992{5}[source]▶
That's theory. Can you send me a link to any html file where this actually works? It's a problem I'd love to have solved.

Edit to clarify: The break-after property works with the worthless print dialogues, but doesn't function with "Export to PDF", which is what most people will want to use.

19. crazygringo ◴[09 Dec 25 14:28 UTC] No.46205254{5}[source]▶
I don't think you understand.

Citations need to generate reference lists. Footnotes require automatic placement at the bottom of each page. Your examples of numbered tables are numbering the rows, not the tables. And figure numbers need to be referenced in the text.

None of what you're pointing to does what academic papers need. Why are you trying to push this agenda?