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418 points akagusu | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.683s | source | bottom
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Aurornis ◴[] No.45955140[source]
I have yet to read an article complaining about XSLT deprecation from someone who can explain why they actually used it and why it’s important to them.

> I will keep using XSLT, and in fact will look for new opportunities to rely on it.

This is the closest I’ve seen, but it’s not an explanation of why it was important before the deprecation. It’s a declaration that they’re using it as an act of rebellion.

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Fileformat ◴[] No.45956141[source]
Making RSS/Atom feeds friendly to new users is key for its adoption, and for the open web. XSLT is the best way to do that.

I made a website to promote doing using XSLT for RSS/Atom feeds. Look at the before/after screenshots: which one will scare off a non-techie user?

https://www.rss.style/

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shadowgovt ◴[] No.45956453[source]
RSS and Atom feeds are at this point a solution looking for a problem.

I use RSS all the time... To keep up-to-date on podcasts. But for keeping up to date on news, people use social media. RSS isn't the missing piece of the puzzle for changing that, an app on top of RSS is. And in the absence of Reader, nothing has shown up to fill that role that can compete with just trading gossip on Facebook.

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basscomm ◴[] No.45958260[source]
> But for keeping up to date on news, people use social media. RSS isn't the missing piece of the puzzle for changing that, an app on top of RSS is. And in the absence of Reader, nothing has shown up to fill that role that can compete with just trading gossip on Facebook.

I guess if you don't use social media or facebook you're out of luck?

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shadowgovt ◴[] No.45958483[source]
I don't see why. You can always subscribe to a newspaper. Or just use RSS and a subscription tool since it didn't just go away.

What I'm saying, though, is if you don't use social media at this point you're already an outlier (I am, it should be noted, using the term broadly: you are using social media. Right now. Hacker News is in the same category as Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, et. al. in this context: it's a place you go to get information instead of using a collection of RSS feeds, and I think the reason people do this instead of that may be instructive as to the ultimate fate of RSS for that use-case).

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1. righthand ◴[] No.45959671[source]
> since it didn't just go away.

But do you see how removing a feature from a major browser makes it seem like RSS did just go away and how RSS will eventually go away?

What a terrible disingenuous argument. Anyone not in line with big tech deserves to be pushed aside eh?

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2. shadowgovt ◴[] No.45960289[source]
RSS hasn't gone anywhere. Every podcast my podcast player downloads is announced to it either via RSS or Atom feeds. It has just fallen by the wayside as the way people become aware of updates to websites with serial publication of content (in general: because most people get that information from peer-to-peer link sharing, like Facebook, Twitter, Mastodon, Fark, Reddit, Slashdot, or even this website).

They're not even removing the ability for the browser to render XML. They're just removing an in-browser formatter for XML (a feature that can be supported by server-side rendering or client-side polyfill).

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3. righthand ◴[] No.45960375[source]
Yes while their chosen formats directly aligned with their business get first class citizenship and suffer many larger and well known security issues. Xml will be next just wait.
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4. shadowgovt ◴[] No.45961119{3}[source]
What would that mean? XML is just text on the wire. If a browser stops supporting it... It's text on the wire. I slurp it in with JavaScript and parse it how I want.

... Actually, that seems like a fine idea...

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5. righthand ◴[] No.45984655{4}[source]
Great lets remove the Html and Css renders too then. I can just slurp it in with Javascript and parse it how you want. No standards, do what you want!
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6. shadowgovt ◴[] No.45992787{5}[source]
The language in the browser for specifying what should show up and in what format is HTML and CSS. We can't remove them because we don't have anything to substitute; without them, there's just no displayable content.

Is your proposal that we replace those relatively heavyweight standards with something more primitive that we could then build the behavior on top of? I think there's meat on those bones. Quite frankly, the amount of work we do to push intent to fit the constraints of HTML and CSS in web apps is a little absurd relative to the frameworks and languages we have to do that in non-web widget toolkits. I'm not actually convinced that "Tk as an abstraction in the browser that we build HTML and CSS on top of" would be a bad thing (although we probably want to use something better than Tk, with more security guarantees).

... However, if we did that, we would really damage the accessibility story as it currently stands (since accessibility hinting is built on top of the HTML spec) and that's probably a bridge too far. We already have enough site developers who put zero thought into their accessibility; removing even the defaults HTML provides with its structure would be a bad call.