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    An official atlas of North Korea

    (www.cartographerstale.com)
    228 points speckx | 25 comments | | HN request time: 0.2s | source | bottom
    1. monooso ◴[] No.45956494[source]
    > According to the prevailing narrative in North Korea, the war was won by the communists and since then, the entire Korean peninsula has remained united under the rule of the Korean Workers’ Party.

    (Emphasis mine)

    TIL. Now I'm really curious how maintaining this fiction works (or doesn't) in practice.

    replies(7): >>45956514 #>>45956611 #>>45956617 #>>45956620 #>>45956681 #>>45956769 #>>45956806 #
    2. hk1337 ◴[] No.45956514[source]
    Clearly, we were thinking the same thing or along the same lines.
    3. yostrovs ◴[] No.45956611[source]
    The book 1984 demonstrates how logical inconsistencies can exist and be believed in when you don't have much choice.
    replies(2): >>45956723 #>>45957030 #
    4. ch_123 ◴[] No.45956617[source]
    I'm also curious given the rhetoric that the North Korean media has about the "puppet" state in the south. I can understand that the North Koreans want to claim sovereignty over the whole peninsula, but the article makes it sound like North Korea pretends that the ROK does not exist.
    replies(2): >>45957722 #>>45960600 #
    5. vkou ◴[] No.45956681[source]
    > TIL. Now I'm really curious how maintaining this fiction works (or doesn't) in practice.

    Very easily. There's an official account, which 'everyone'[1] knows is bullshit, but if you try to assert any logical consequences of it, you will immediately out yourself as a malcontent, and will get into serious trouble. (Because despite having all sorts of constitutional protections for your rights on paper, the executive has the power in practice to do anything it wants to you at any time, with no redress. Good luck exercising articles 67 through 79 of that constitution. If you're lucky, you'll be softly told to sit down and shut up. If you're unlucky, you'll be doing a few years in a camp.)

    It's the time-tested playbook that every authoritarian regime follows, and if you're interested in learning more about how it works in practice, just turn on Fox News. It's got the first half of the double-think process down, and is working hard on getting us to the second half.

    There is always a thin public justification for why rights don't apply to the enemies of the state, which is enough to convince ~half the country. (Because ~half of any country will happily accept whatever atrocities its leaders do. You can observe that sort of thing on this very forum.)

    ---

    [1] Not actually everyone, some people really are that fucking stupid, but most know there's something off[2] about it.

    [2] In this particular case, the official Atlas says they are one country, but the country's Constitution (updated last year on this very subject) says that the ROK is a foreign, hostile state. Anyone who can read or has eyes to see and ears to hear should easily be able to tell that the latter is the more accurate one.

    replies(1): >>45956986 #
    6. s0sa ◴[] No.45956723[source]
    And can in fact be a useful test of loyalty.
    replies(1): >>45956939 #
    7. ceejayoz ◴[] No.45956769[source]
    I mean, see American politics for a similar example.

    The Epstein files are simultaneously a "Democrat hoax" and full of prominent Dems. The Attorney General both has them on her desk, and they don't exist.

    replies(1): >>45956824 #
    8. sunaookami ◴[] No.45956806[source]
    Is the second part actually true though? I can't find any sources about this, in fact the opposite seems to be true. North Korea recently changed their constitution and describe South Korea as a "hostile state" which means they officially recognize it as a "state" at least[1]. Before that they explicitly had a goal for unification in the constitution which implies (or can be implied) that there never was such a view that "the entire Korean peninsula has remained united under the rule of the Korean Workers’ Party". There is also this sentence:

    >This North Korean world map is centred on the Pacific Ocean, which gives Korea a privileged position on the global stage

    This is normal for asian maps, Japan does the same thing for example.

    [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/north-korea-repor...

    replies(2): >>45956928 #>>45957088 #
    9. Volundr ◴[] No.45956824[source]
    And there's not enough in them to charge or investigate any 3rd parties, until some are made public and now there's enough to investigate Democrats.
    replies(1): >>45957626 #
    10. recursivecaveat ◴[] No.45956928[source]
    Yeah, I'm kindof skeptical. Another example I found was Kim referencing the south in a TV speech. I think their official position might be something closer to that the war was victorious by virtue of holding off the Americans and/or removing them from the area. Then the atlas doesn't show the south as a separate country because it's more of a Taiwan situation where they don't want to legitimize it as anything more than a rebellious province? At least in the early 2000s when this atlas was made. The language at the time definitely seems to emphasize that the whole peninsula is just "the nation": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_15th_North%E2%80%93South_...
    11. red-iron-pine ◴[] No.45956939{3}[source]
    said loyalty tests become a purity spiral, e.g. who can clap the loudest or cry the most for Dear Leader

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_spiral

    replies(1): >>45967463 #
    12. red-iron-pine ◴[] No.45956986[source]
    > You can observe that sort of thing on this very forum.

    remember that 1) this forum skews to a very specific sort of person, and 2) that person notwithstanding, there is an incredible, shocking large amount of bots active here, owing to the fact that the people from 1) are also AI worshipping futurists (and/or techno-fascists)

    replies(1): >>45957606 #
    13. cedilla ◴[] No.45957030[source]
    It's a book, not a demonstration.

    In any case, North Koreans are not taught that South Korea is just like any other part of North Korea. The idea that the North Korean people and leadership are all buffoons who make the weirdest of lies possible is already Orwellian enough.

    replies(1): >>45958334 #
    14. quicklime ◴[] No.45957088[source]
    >> This North Korean world map is centred on the Pacific Ocean, which gives Korea a privileged position on the global stage

    > This is normal for asian maps, Japan does the same thing for example.

    This is common in Australia too.

    replies(2): >>45957758 #>>45957810 #
    15. cassepipe ◴[] No.45957606{3}[source]
    Hi !

    I am not a AI worshiping futurist nor a (techno-)fascist for that matter. I don't think bots are that active on such a small platform but I guess by "bots" you mean people who offer pushback on your opinions (they are a "shocking" number indeed, it seems I can hardly convince more than one person to rally my positions from time to time and I still have to pretend to be nuanced !)

    I also believe that "platform is skewed against X" (generally your own opinions) are utterly useless comments. You are just pretending everyone is against you so you don't have to take criticism addressed to you seriously.

    Now you can enjoy the ego boost of feeling like the virtuous online warrior against a world of techno-fascists that are ganging up on you or you can reflect and try to take into account the fact that people have different viewpoints and are mostly doing their best. I eventually chose the latter and I have to say I feel less grandiose but much better overall. Join the club, we have cookies.

    16. Terr_ ◴[] No.45957626{3}[source]
    And suddenly the unimportant records that don't exist but were also a hoax but also implicate the-other-guy are about to be made public... suddenly an "ongoing investigation" is the new excuse.

    > The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between the true and the false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.

    -- The origins of Totalitarianism (1951), by Hannah Arendt

    17. the_af ◴[] No.45957722[source]
    This is easy to resolve: North Korea doesn't believe it has control over the South. The article is simply wrong, a variant of the trope of "those crazy North Koreans believe all sorts of things".

    They believe there's only one Korea, artificially split in two by their enemies, and that it should all be under the control of the current NK government, but they don't believe they control all of it now.

    18. bad_haircut72 ◴[] No.45957758{3}[source]
    As a map of Australia sure but not a world map
    replies(1): >>45958085 #
    19. onraglanroad ◴[] No.45957810{3}[source]
    So you're saying North Korea, Japan and Australia are engaged in a leftist plot to take a privileged position in the world?

    All we need is some TikTok, YouTube shorts and some gullible right wingers, and I think we've got ourselves a product!

    replies(1): >>45992052 #
    20. lIl-IIIl ◴[] No.45958085{4}[source]
    The second search result for "Australian world map" shows a world map that is designed for Australian schools and it centers on Pacific Ocean:

    https://www.australianteachingaids.com.au/the-world-map

    The first search result for "Australian world map" was for one of those novelty south-side up maps.

    21. FridayoLeary ◴[] No.45958334{3}[source]
    Well they do don't they? I read a couple of books about life in the soviet union. 1984 is satire, but it's not so far off from what reality was.
    22. the_gipsy ◴[] No.45960600[source]
    Isn't it widely known everywhere in the world that SK is a total puppet government of the USA?
    23. IAmBroom ◴[] No.45967463{4}[source]
    By Vectron's claw!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icTrzUuWlHI

    24. akimbostrawman ◴[] No.45992052{4}[source]
    >engaged in a leftist plot

    >gullible right wingers

    Where in the discussion or article was the affiliation or relevance of the western political spectrum mentioned? Seems pretty gullible to insert your own frame into a discussion as a gocha towards political opponents you created inside your head.

    replies(1): >>45999109 #
    25. onraglanroad ◴[] No.45999109{5}[source]
    Yeah, you're all confused by the signals. Isn't it lucky there are adults in the world to help?