←back to thread

Open-source Zig book

(www.zigbook.net)
692 points rudedogg | 4 comments | 16 Nov 25 19:44 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
poly2it ◴[17 Nov 25 06:14 UTC] No.45951222[source]▶
> Learning Zig is not just about adding a language to your resume. It is about fundamentally changing how you think about software.

I'm not sure what they expect, but to me Zig looks very much like C with a modern standard lib and slightly different syntax. This isn't groundbreaking, not a thought paradigm which should be that novel to most system engineers like for example OCaml could be. Stuff like this alienates people who want a technical justification for the use of a language.

replies(10): >>45951231 #>>45951258 #>>45951302 #>>45951388 #>>45951755 #>>45951799 #>>45951814 #>>45951964 #>>45952563 #>>45952740 #
obviouslynotme ◴[17 Nov 25 06:57 UTC] No.45951388[source]▶
There is nothing new under the Sun. However, some languages manifest as good rewrites of older languages. Rust is that for C++. Zig is that for C.

Rust is the small, beautiful language hiding inside of Modern C++. Ownership isn't new. It's the core tenet of RAII. Rust just pulls it out of the backwards-compatible kitchen sink and builds it into the type system. Rust is worth learning just so that you can fully experience that lens of software development.

Zig is Modern C development encapsulated in a new language. Most importantly, it dodges Rust and C++'s biggest mistake, not passing allocators into containers and functions. All realtime development has to rewrite their entire standard libraries, like with the EASTL.

On top of the great standard library design, you get comptime, native build scripts, (err)defer, error sets, builtin simd, and tons of other small but important ideas. It's just a really good language that knows exactly what it is and who its audience is.

replies(5): >>45951424 #>>45951440 #>>45951718 #>>45952038 #>>45952891 #
simonask ◴[17 Nov 25 08:09 UTC] No.45951718[source]▶
I don't know man, Rust's borrowing semantics are pretty new under the sun, and actually do change the way you think about software. It's a pretty momentous paradigm shift.

Zig is nice too, but it's not that.

replies(4): >>45951766 #>>45952000 #>>45952259 #>>45952444 #
1. pjmlp ◴[17 Nov 25 10:44 UTC] No.45952444{3}[source]▶
Kind of, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_(programming_language)

What it has achieved is making affine types something mainstream developers would care about.

replies(1): >>45952730 #
2. Ygg2 ◴[17 Nov 25 11:35 UTC] No.45952730[source]▶
That kind of is a bit load bearing. The differences are pretty huge. Plus, borrow checker is nowhere to be found. Cyclone is more C with a few tweaks (tagged unions, generics, regions, etc.).
replies(1): >>45952787 #
3. pjmlp ◴[17 Nov 25 11:45 UTC] No.45952787[source]▶
Borrow checking is basically a synonym for affine type system.

The same outcome can be achieved via affine types, linear types, effects, dependent types, regions, proofs, among many other CS research in type systems.

Which is why following Rust's success, plenty of managed languages are now going through the evolution step to combine automatic resource management with improved type systems.

Taking the one that best approaches their current design.

replies(1): >>45955097 #
4. Ygg2 ◴[17 Nov 25 16:26 UTC] No.45955097{3}[source]▶
> Borrow checking is basically a synonym for affine type system.

No? It's more akin to flow analysis with special generic types called lifetimes.

> The same outcome can be achieved via affine types, linear types, effects, dependent types, regions, proofs, among many other CS research in type systems.

Sure, and sounds, colors, and instruments are the same, but they are mixed to create an audio-video song. I'm not saying that what Rust did is something that came about ex nihilo, without precedence.

But having it all unified uniquely the way Rust did it is frankly revolutionary. Until now, people assumed if you want memory safety, you have to add a GC (tracing or RC). Or alternatively write extensive proofs about types like Ada/Spark.