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301 points nogajun | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.025s | source
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pronik ◴[] No.45944469[source]
Whoever thinks that VSCode does not have any learning curve or is somehow magically easy, needs to take a reality check, that thing is overwhelming with all its popups, hovers, sidebars etc. beyond all reason when you first run it (and later too). I'm an Emacs user and I don't in any way support the notion it's somehow easy or intuitively workable, it's most definitely not and never has been. I just think that VSCode is not it either, it's just the more popular tool right now.
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kace91 ◴[] No.45944574[source]
Every piece of software that’s effectively a professional workbench (IDEs, DAWs, video editing, etc) is going to have some complexity.

I can’t imagine the argument that vscode’s level of complexity is even in the same order of magnitude as vim or eMacs though. A 2 minute tutorial or half an hour or fiddling will get you sorted with vscode, I needed a full ebook for neovim.

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skydhash ◴[] No.45944682[source]
VSCode rely on familiar pattern and UX to let you get started easily. But out of the box, it's pretty much notepad level. Vim and Emacs start from the premises that you need powerful tools. And they give them to you alongside the possibility to integrate external tools easily with the editor workflow. With VSCode any integration needs to be a full project. With emacs and vims, it's a few lines of config.
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kace91 ◴[] No.45944797[source]
What kind of integration is a full project? Integrating language support for example is usually just heading to the plugins section, searching for the language and clicking install on the most mainstream result.

My config for vscode is just like 5 lines to make keyboard travel between panes a bit more vim like, other than that I never needed to change much from defaults.

For neovim the work to make it ide-like is a large list of plugins and its integrations, large enough that I’m comfortable outsourcing the consistency to a distro (lazyvim).

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t_mahmood ◴[] No.45945205[source]
Yeah, now see, you need to do that for every programming language, or tool for vscode.

With Lazyvim you get all at once. And you can ignore many plugins if you want,

Sure it's not ide level, but with proper configuration vim/Nvim is much more powerful than vscode. And thanks to Lazyvim, you can set it up faster

but Nvim or vim even without plugins can do many things that vscode can not do. So without plugins vscode is just an editor, while Nvim/vim are powerful utilities

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1. kace91 ◴[] No.45945789{3}[source]
>Sure it's not ide level, but with proper configuration vim/Nvim is much more powerful than vscode.

I’m not arguing against that, I actually moved to neovim and I enjoy it - plus I can now stop worrying that my daily driver will be rug pulled.

I just don’t agree with the idea that neither nvim or eMacs have similar levels of ability to onboard new users. Not when grokking something as simple as closing a tab will get you through a history lesson on the alternate namings of tabs, buffers and windows for example.

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2. skydhash ◴[] No.45946030[source]
No one is arguing that. Just that VSCode is also complex too. But it’s just that out of the box, there’s nothing special. Then you add a few tools through plugins and that’s the extent of of workflow customization most people stay at. If you want more, you have to start a whole new project, and the complexity of that is high while the return is not as good as you can have with emacs/vim.

With emacs/vim, getting started is fairly easy (there’s a tutorial). The learning phase is linear, but it’s just practice and using the software. Creating your own tool is very easy as you can jumpstart from where other’s plugins are and add your own stuff. In VSCode, it’s starting from scatch everytime.