←back to thread

148 points mstngl | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.215s | source | bottom
1. jauntywundrkind ◴[] No.45805094[source]
This thing feels like a mortal danger to the (up to 8x!) iron pipes / hydrants it's pulling from, that it'd want to just chew up the very pipes themselves! Or to the building it's hurling 37 tons of water a minute at! I don't understand how a connector hose wouldn't collapse, how it maintains any cross-section rather than being sucked into collapse.

Also wondering: what replaced this!

(Ed: great reply from Mindcrime. Also, the new Ferrara Super Pumper shows a very impressive ribbed(?) 8-inch "hard suction" hose! There's a whole wikipedia section for these drafting/vacuum hoses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suction_hose)

replies(4): >>45805215 #>>45805216 #>>45805345 #>>45809485 #
2. amluto ◴[] No.45805215[source]
I imagine the hydrants were operated at positive pressure. Water mains are generally somewhere between 40 and maybe 120 psi gauge. You don’t gain a whole lot by sucking on them - at most you get to -14 psi, and you do not want to boil the water (aka cause cavitation) in your pump.
3. mindcrime ◴[] No.45805216[source]
This thing feels like a mortal danger to the (up to 8x!) iron pipes / hydrants it's pulling from,

When pumping a fire engine supplied by a hydrant (or any other pressurized source, as opposed to drafting from a static water source like a pond or lake) there's an idea of "residual pressure" which is monitored by a gauge on the pump panel. The engineer is responsible for making sure the residual pressure doesn't drop below the level where damage would occur to the water system, supply hose, or the pump itself. It's been a few years, but I think most departments spec somewhere around 20psi as the minimum residual pressure they allow.

Also wondering: what replaced this!

The Super Pumper[1], of course! :-)

The new one isn't quite as extreme, not tractor drawn and no separate engine. This is more of a traditional fire engine style platform, but the specs are still pretty impressive.

[1]: https://www.firefighternation.com/lifestyle/new-fdny-super-p...

4. topspin ◴[] No.45805345[source]
> Also wondering: what replaced this!

A collection of smaller pumps and monitors, which is likely a better scheme, in terms of flexibility and fault tolerance. While a remarkable design, the single pump with long hoses to multiple hydrants, then radiating to multiple monitors, is a system that takes great coordination and precious time to deploy and rework in action.

The Napier Deltic engine is the party piece in all this. It is an ambitious and yet successful design, intended to push the limit of power-to-weight in a diesel engine. I investigated the state of current diesel locomotive engines in comparison to the Deltic and it remains, to this day, the highest power-to-weight diesel engine in use for locomotives. (There are half a dozen still running in the UK today in limited service.) I've personally visited the Bay City museum to see this engine.

These engines require forced induction; they cannot run naturally aspirated. In its various naval, rail and other applications there were many different induction designs applied to the Deltic: turbos, superchargers and combinations of both. Today, we have electric forced induction, enabled by the high performance electric motors that have emerged elsewhere in transport applications. One thinks of what diesel wonders might be created by combining the Deltic design with electric forced induction.

replies(1): >>45805459 #
5. jabl ◴[] No.45805459[source]
I believe most contemporary marine two stroke diesels use electrical blowers for scavenging at low speeds. At higher speed the turbocharger spins up and takes over, and the electric blowers are shut down.
6. bombcar ◴[] No.45809485[source]
You don't bust this out until the building is already at risk anyway, so the amount of water is considered "the better option".

(Which is why almost ANY fire is a total structure loss unless you can contain it nearly instantly, because the water used to fight it destroys nearly everything. Only if the building is large, concrete, or the damage limited is it worth repairing; most fire-damaged houses get pulled down as it's cheaper overall.)