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574 points nh43215rgb | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.779s | source
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hexbin010 ◴[] No.45781498[source]
> “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien,”

This is "computer says no (not a citizen)". Which is horrifying

They've just created an app to justify what they were already doing right? And the argument will be "well it's a super complex app run by a very clever company so it can't be wrong"?

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im3w1l ◴[] No.45784720[source]
> > “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien,”

When they decide that someone is in the US illegaly using the app... what happens? Is the person apprehended? Driven straight to the border? Taken into custody while more data about them is gathered?

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pbhjpbhj ◴[] No.45787035[source]
You seem to be under the mistaken belief that this is a legal process. This is all so contrary to the established laws of the USA legal system that the Trump's military will not even show their faces.

There's no "custody", these people aren't being afforded the Constitutional, legal, or human rights. This is internment by militarised fascist gangs.

"Officer", ha. These are people given a gun and told to go out and brutalise others. There not performing an office of state, they're far outside the law. All, it seems, to try and force those who support democracy to step out of line so Trump/Vance and their handlers can have more people killed and claim civil war is getting in the way of having elections.

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refurb ◴[] No.45787837[source]
That’s not true at all.

If the computer says you’re in the US illegally, but you have documents that say you are a US citizen, then you are put in custody until the discrepancy can be resolved.

It really depends on whether or not there is a standing deportation order for that person. If not, then it’s a lengthy process where you appear in front of a judge who may release you (yes, low risk aliens are still being released) or held in custody until the trial is held.

If you have a standing deportation order, and your identity is confirmed, then yes, you may be deported quite quickly.

No due process is being denied. If you have a standing deportation order, you can be deported.

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nerdsniper ◴[] No.45787931[source]
> No due process is being denied.

Readers are likely to interpret this generally and it may act as a lightning rod - the statement may need some qualifiers to define what is not denying due process.

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1. refurb ◴[] No.45788574[source]
Ok, I'll revise it to "no due process is regularly being denied".
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2. DannyBee ◴[] No.45791224[source]
Lawyer here - This is, as far as i know, mostly wrong at this point.

If you are an actual citizen, the law basically says they can briefly detain you to verify. Brief here is meant to be like "15 minutes". However, it is now taking weeks or months in some cases.

These are clear due process violations, and they are happening regularly now.

They also cannot simply ignore authoritative evidence of citizenship because a computer says otherwise, without violating due process (because it affects their ability to have cause).

Certainly they can ignore like a printout or something, but if you have a valid passport or real id drivers license (IE something considered authoritative), it's almost certainly a due process violation to ignore it and detain you for weeks anyway based on a facial recognition match.

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3. refurb ◴[] No.45794766[source]
Are you an immigration lawyer?

Sure if you produce some secure form of proof that has no indication of being fraudulent there is no cause to detain.

But that’s not what’s happening in many cases. People using others ID. Questions about fraud in the immigration case itself.

If you have any examples of US citizens being detained for extended periods (actual citizens, not just a verbal claim) I’d be interested to read about them.