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You can't refuse to be scanned by ICE's facial recognition app, DHS document say

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574 points nh43215rgb | 2 comments | 01 Nov 25 08:58 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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noodlesUK ◴[01 Nov 25 12:39 UTC] No.45781183[source]▶
This is going to be a huge pain. The US has a very fragmented identity system, and "move fast and break things" approaches like this to bring information from across government systems well outside the scope of what that information was collected for will result in real problems.

I worry what this app and systems like it might mean for me. I'm a US citizen, but I used to be an LPR. I never naturalized - I got my citizenship automatically by operation of law (INA 320, the child citizenship act). At some point I stopped being noodlesUK (LPR) and magically became noodlesUK (US Citizen), but not through the normal process. Presumably this means that there are entries in USCIS's systems that are orphaned, that likely indicate that I am an LPR who has abandoned their status, or at least been very bad about renewing their green card.

I fear that people in similar situations to my own might have a camera put in their face, some old database record that has no chance of being updated will be returned, and the obvious evidence in front of an officer's eyes, such as a US passport will be ignored. There are probably millions of people in similar situations to me, and millions more with even more complex statuses.

I know people who have multiple citizenships with multiple names, similar to this person: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45531721. Will these hastily deployed systems be able to cope with the complex realities of real people?

EDIT: LPR is lawful permanent resident, i.e., green card holder

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dataflow ◴[01 Nov 25 16:57 UTC] No.45783236[source]▶
I assume you mean your parents naturalized? In which case I think you(r parents) should have been given a certificate of citizenship for you at that point, along with their own certificates of naturalization - was that not the case?

(Not suggesting anything about enforcement practices - just trying to understand what the edge cases are like.)

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1. noodlesUK ◴[01 Nov 25 21:01 UTC] No.45785313[source]▶
Nope. I was born abroad to a U.S. citizen who didn’t meet the physical presence criteria to pass on citizenship. I came to the U.S. as a child on an IR-2 green card, then when the CCA became law I automatically became a citizen. My parents applied for a passport for me, and in the process the department of state presumably shredded my green card. I don’t have a certificate of citizenship and I’m not eligible to apply for one, as I no longer live in the U.S.

Unfortunately USCIS doesn’t know anything about this (as it was all handled by the department of state), and presumably thinks I’m an alien who abandoned their status.

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2. dataflow ◴[02 Nov 25 04:14 UTC] No.45787807[source]▶
Wow, I see. In a sane world, I would assume the passport would be enough, so hopefully this won't cause you issues, but I can certainly imagine things going wrong. That was quite fascinating, thanks for explaining.